it's it's a really scary thing and
sometimes because we're creative people
and a lot of creepy people don't also
have that like business mindset you know
it's hard to be both if you know these
things and you set yourself up for
success it could be awesome but if you
don't know those things you could get
yourself into trouble and spend a lot of
money and then also you're just really
discouraged to ever try again han Becker
with the happy-ever-after
and this week I'm talking to Emily Arbor
of cheerfully maid who is walking us
through five things to know about
wholesaling your product so if you have
a handmade product and you've been
thinking about trying to get it into
stores this episode is gonna be so so
helpful for you so let's jump right in
Emily welcome to the show thanks for
having me I'm so excited to finally meet
you in person
yeah not in person in person yeah
I honestly I know I have some audience
that's ottawa-based or like Ottawa area
based and I feel like for most of them
this is like a celebrity sighting like I
have a celebrity on no but it's true
like you have a super reputation in the
crafty world in Ottawa and so yeah so
I'm so excited to have you on here and
for people who aren't in Ottawa just
know that emily is in Ottawa celebrity
in the craft world so speaking of that
actually before we get into all your
lesson and everything can you give us
like the Coles notes of what yeah so I
grew up in Almonte which is like a
little town about 30 minutes west of
Ottawa and when you start with when I
grew up I guess that doesn't sound like
it's gonna be a short story basically
I'm the owner of a little shop called
cheerfully made goods and markets here
in El mozo cute it's a little brick and
mortar shop that features all handmade
goods mostly Canadian mostly local and
it is like a brick-and-mortar extension
of a craft show series that I've been
running for 10 years called cheerfully
made markets and we have four shows a
year I host two of them in Elmont and
two of them in Ottawa and I'm also the
Etsy team captain for Ottawa which means
I put on any
the events in the area and most recently
I started actually working as a
freelancer for Etsy just part-time like
20 hours a week as a seller development
specialist so I basically go across the
country doing little epi info night
pop-ups with successful sellers in those
whatever city center I'm in at the time
and we do a little at the info nights
and I look for new sellers who are not
on Etsy and give them some tools to get
on there so that is sort of me in a
nutshell and I recently started creating
some like educational tools for makers
as well yeah so and that's why I had
messaged you and said like I need to
have you on the show because you were
posting like I already knew I knew your
story I've been to your markets like I
knew who you are but you posted about
this new course that you you were
writing or you had written and then it's
ready now and it's about wholesaling
which is such an interesting it's I love
that that's the course that you wrote
because you have such an interesting
angle on it as a shop owner and someone
who's been doing that for so long but
also like knowing and needing all the
makers and working at them and seeing
like the journey that they go through
from like just starting and having their
first product to trying to get it into
stores yeah totally so I guess my like
main question is do many of your craft
show sellers that you meet like do many
of them also do wholesaling and want to
be in stores or is it kind of like one
or the other how does that drive what
was happening is that people were our
approach our shop owners are starting to
look at craft markets for new product
lines and and to be able to say like oh
we carry a lot of locally made stuff and
they're approaching makers and they're
not the makers are really really
flattered and excited to be in the shop
but they're not quite prepared so yes I
would say I don't I couldn't even really
give you a percentage maybe 20 15 20 %
of makers at my markets are now
wholesaling their stuff and it is
totally possible but it's not just
something to jump into willy-nilly and I
was getting asked a lot about how to do
it
and then doing a lot of one-on-ones and
as you know that just gets kind of like
it's hard you can't help everybody just
don't there just isn't enough bandwidth
so that's sort of why I started to
create this course and what I'm finding
is that people really need it I've
meeting a lot of people who are like
just diving in headfirst and being like
I'm gonna have a handmaid business and
I'm gonna look and you know they do
craft shows but then they dive into this
whole sale and they're like they're
literally losing money so anyway it was
just kind of freaking me out and I was
wondering if this was like a bit of an
epidemic that people don't know where to
get the information on how to do this
because but on handmade stuff there's
just so much for margin so people are
getting themselves into some trouble and
I and I thought I could help them by
creating this course yeah I love that I
can actually I can actually a to not
having any idea what you're doing and
I'm getting sort of screwed I I had
never actually entered a craft show but
at one point I decided that it would be
smart for me to print a bajillion cards
with my writing on them and mugs and
glassware and all this stuff and I still
have boxes and boxes of it in my storage
unit that I don't know what to do it yes
if you want them they're yours but I
actually like you know I I printed them
and had them all made thinking that this
was a great idea before I did any
research into how this actually works
and like what the options are for
wholesaling like I didn't even know what
oh that you know I didn't know the
jargon I had to like Google everything
and then also at the same time try and
approach shop owners with like the right
kind of offer so they thought I knew
what I was doing and it just was a
disaster like I'm not gonna lie and I
spent a ton of money printing it and
having all the product and now I still
have it's okay I love that you're
writing this Coraline yeah I think it's
it's it's a really scary thing and
sometimes because we're creative people
and a lot of great people don't also
have that like business mindset you know
it's hard to be both and I was blessed
with both sides of that brain so I am I
my background is more in business than
it isn't creative so I feel like if you
know these things
and you set yourself up for success it
could be awesome but if you don't know
those things you could get yourself into
trouble and spend a lot of money and
then also you're just really discouraged
to ever try again so you could still
probably do it Becca whether or not I
want to I don't know yeah so like you
said your you have five things to know
before getting into all this stuff which
I think is like such a valuable resource
in itself this will give people kind of
an idea whether or not they even want to
do it right so I think I'll just get my
face off of here and let you take it
away but before I do I know you have a
freebie for people so they can follow
along right yeah exactly because I have
anticipate just going off the rail so I
put it into digital form okay perfect
and yeah I'll link to that down below so
people can just easily click on it and
follow along thank you okay cool let's
get into it so the first thing that I
think a lot of people might not be aware
of is that when you get into wholesale
you're about to take a pay cut you're
about to take about a 50% pay cut
because to wholesale your products means
that you're selling them for about 50%
off of what you sell at shows and online
so if you haven't already set yourself
up to have that retail pricing then you
may not have the margins available in
your product so consignment is a totally
different story and we're not gonna get
into that right now but shop owners
purchasing wholesale need that margin to
cover costs like overhead and for their
debit machine and different fees and for
their staff and for their electricity
and their rent and all those things and
sometimes what I hear from makers is
that they're shocked that that they
would need a 50% margin to give to the
retailer but that's just the reality of
wholesaling so that's a that's a really
important thing to know Emily can you
just touch quickly on margin is know I'm
maybe yeah you could touch on that too
but I was gonna say like so one of the
things that really like I actually had
no idea that was sort of embarrassing
now is the difference between wholesale
and consignment yeah so caters like
briefly less than yeah
totally so wholesale is when you sell a
retailer your product and they own it so
you sell it to them for a price they
mark that up generally by two and they
resell it consignment is when you don't
get you give the shop your product but
you don't get paid until after it sells
and that's usually a smaller you get a
bit more of the cut because you're
assuming all of the risk
basically the the retailer isn't
assuming any risk but there are lots of
reasons why I'm not a huge fan of
consignment there's a lot of gray area
as far as like what happens if an item
gets damaged or broken or dusty or
stolen is the retailer very good at
paying out at the end of every month
many shops are not it takes a lot more
organization my preference would always
be to just like sell it have you know
get that cash put it back into creating
more product and move on so so
essentially that's the difference and
what I mean by margin is for instance is
how much money can be made on the
product so we're gonna get into it a bit
more as far as like what your cost
should be what a whole wholesale cost
should be and what a retail cost should
be but those are those areas in between
are the margins there so the thing with
a lot of people think like why would I
want to wholesale when I'm taking such a
huge cut and my feeling is that this is
like the long game this is like the
business it's not it takes as much
energy for me for example to sell 48
candles as it does for me to sell one at
a craft market this is like behind the
scenes putting orders together moving
larger quantities for a lower amount but
it's the momentum that you get and also
the reach like I can I'm limited by my
geography when I'm selling at craft
markets and the number of people that
are coming into the into the shows
whereas if I'm selling wholesale my
stuff could be sold all across Canada
and reaching all those different markets
so that's the first thing that you need
to know so if your prices are set so
that there is no room for you to take a
cut in your profit just don't do it like
you you don't there are some products
that are not going to be a good fit for
wholesale but here's the basic wholesale
math so if the product you're making
costs say twenty dollars in materials
and you need to include your labor and
this which is something you know I'm
having just written this course I'm like
I I don't want to over I don't want to
talk to too much because there's so many
parts of every segment so I'm gonna try
to keep it keep it short but and I just
want to quickly like we didn't even
mention at the beginning that your
course is available so I'll link to it
down below if people want to get like
really yeah but like I feel like it's
another epidemic is that we just really
either we don't pay ourselves at all or
we really undervalued what our time is
worth so that's a whole that's a whole
other topic is paying yourself what
you're worth but so say your product
cost twenty dollars in material and
labor then you multiply that by two to
get whatever you're gonna wholesale it
for so then you wholesale your product
for forty dollars and then the retailer
retails it for eighty dollars so a lot
of people are gonna be like go like
there's no way I'm gonna be able to sell
this what I was considering a twenty
dollar product for eighty dollars which
is when I go back to saying like it's
okay not to wholesale your stuff if
that's where it's at but I I would if
you're really set on making it happen
I really recommend taking like a deep
dive into your materials like are you
purchasing your materials at bulk are
you registered as a business that you
can you can purchase things at a
wholesale cost are you making your stuff
in a way that is like sustainable and
almost like assembly line of all there
are just so many things to consider to
decide if if this is if this is the way
you want your business to go or if this
is truly just like a creative passion
that you're happy not really profiting
from so I think that's people what they
don't understand is the reality of it
becoming like a business and not just a
hobby anymore you know so if it's gonna
suck the joy out of creating then I feel
like I'm getting really negative it'll
get better I promise but so what I was
saying earlier is it doesn't necessarily
need to be like your whole line you
could rethink what it is that you're
wholesaling so for instance if you're
like a super detail like watercolor hand
letterer
and your originals maybe aren't very
well suited to wholesale because of the
amount of time that you're taking with
them
could they be turned into prints or
greeting cards or like you're saying
earlier like mugs or glassware or that
kind of thing and or could you apply to
less expensive items like rubber stamps
that you could have made on mass or
buttons or t-shirts and I just like take
a step back and look at all the the
possibilities there and how you can you
know knowing that you're going to be
taking that pay cut does it make sense
for you to be Hill selling those
products so that's number one
number two is that not all shops are
created equal and as I was saying
earlier like it can be very flattering
and exciting when a shop approaches you
at a craft market and says like we would
love to carry your stuff in our shop you
know do you wholesale and I just want to
encourage she looks just like take a
pause and you know be be excited about
that but before diving in and being like
yes like really do a little bit of
research on that shop because not all
shops are created equally so what other
kind of products does that shop carry
are there price points in line with your
price points is there whole and like
their whole vibe in line with your stuff
is like they could carry your stuff and
then just have it would just sit on the
shelves you want to make sure that it's
a really good fit for you and your
product that you like the owner consider
reaching out to other makers who maybe
sell their stuff in that shop are they
getting paid on time all that type of
stuff and I really recommend having some
sort of wholesale agreement or your
terms and conditions like lock down in
advance before working with shops so
that you're just sort of not that you
need to have the upper hand but that
you're in control so they're not making
all of the rules and
and it sort of conveys that you know
what you're talking about and you're not
one to be taken advantage of either not
the chops are going to but there are a
few that just or not you know it's it's
it's like a little bit of a
bait-and-switch you get excited about
working with them and then the reality
of actually working with them is not as
great you need to make sure you know
what your what you're feeling do you
accept returns things like that you need
to have all that stuff sort of lined out
lined out in advance and for each and
every shop to come with your own to come
with your yeah your own ideas and rules
so number three is you need to really
spell it out the number of times that I
have received emails from people saying
like hey I'm a jewelry designer
I would love to are you placing the
orders are you ordering anything right
now or like is that something that you'd
be looking for it's just um
shop owners are really busy multi
hat-wearing people and so I think it's
it's really important to have your email
just answer all of the questions that
they could potentially have without them
having to come back to you and ask you
more questions so everything from like
the basic how much is this item to what
is your production turnaround how do you
ship these how are they displayed when
you reach out to shop for the first time
that email needs to cover all of the
bases so I want that first outreach
email to include an order she a little
introduction of why you think you'd be a
good fit for the shop I want it to
include a little lime sheet which is
basically like a mini catalog that's
very detailed with prices and pictures
an order form that makes it easy for me
to order and just just really sum it up
so in that first outreach email I just
leave nothing on the table leave all the
information there put your catalog put
your lie sheet so that if I'm having a
moment where if I see your email and you
know maybe it's ten o'clock at night and
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you're not available by email at that
time to answer any like for me to send
you any questions but I'm feeling like
buying something that I can do it you
don't need the
need to have all this back and forth be
like hi my name is Emily I make this
great line of soy candles I've been
admiring your shop online and I feel
that they would be a great fit please
find attached my catalog and my lunch
eating order form and I look forward to
hearing from you so just put just make
it as easy as possible and so that
people don't need to come back and ask
you more questions so number four is
that no one knows that you don't know
what you're doing so this goes back to
the fake it till you make it kind of
thing and I heard somebody say the other
day that that's not actually making it
today make it is actually not a good
idea but I disagree so um I recently
become a fan of this of Marie Forleo and
she says everything is figure out able
and that is the truth has never been
more easy for us to figure stuff out
we've got Google we've got all of these
like free apps that can help us do stuff
so if wholesaling is something that you
want to do then do the research
necessary and build that toolkit of
things like what I was saying earlier
with the line cheating your order form
and your terms and all that stuff do
that hard work and then it is done you
can go back and edit it later if you
want but but get all that stuff that
makes you look like a professional
badass wholesaler and then and you will
be one that's really with what I believe
invest in your brand by having like
great packaging a solid logo growing
your presence online look to what other
people that you admire are doing other
makers I do not want you to a copy I
want you to do you because you're the
only one who can do that best but to
look at what other successful people are
doing and to make that your own can be
one of the best ways to know if you're
on the right track so if there's
something that you feel like you could
be doing better then do it better before
you're ready before you go out into the
world a wholesale so nobody needs to
know that you're not ready just get
ready and then and go for it and then my
last one is that this could be big like
y-you could be the next big handmade
seller out there you could you could be
that person you could be on the shelves
of indigo if that's what you want or
urban outfitters or I have friends who
are hand makers who have you know sold
to the Hudson
stay company I don't know if that's
where you want to go personally I'd like
to go a little smaller than that but
just I want you to know that this could
be a big deal and that you need to
consider what happens if if that does
happen all right it's the way you're
producing your work sustainable are you
selling prints or originals is your
paper supplier going to be able to
fulfill your needs as you grow doing
rush holiday orders that kind of thing
and are you looking to the future and
setting those goals for yourself because
I feel like that's really the only way
well for me I'm pretty driven when it
comes to chasing my my dreams and things
like that and so if you're ready to stop
thinking small and ready to get into
this then it's time for you to to think
big and have all those things in line so
that you can you know achieve that goal
of wholesaling to whoever it is that you
want we'll sell - I love it I I was
gonna mentioned like when I saw that you
were going to talk about no one knows
that you don't know what you're doing I
was gonna mention the marie forleo
everything is figure out of ohthank cuz
I love that quote and I love I did you
read her book no I actually didn't read
her book no yeah but I will because I
just that's been the secret to my all of
my anything as I've had is just like
figuring it out you know and I and
that's how I figured out wholesale
that's how I figured out Etsy was just
by like creating a product and just
going for it and and like when you were
saying that you've made maybe some
mistakes with how you've spent money
that's just part I just always think of
that stuff as like my paid education
because there's no like I'm not paying
University fees for this type of thing
if I you know waste a thousand bucks on
ordering like hand littered glassware
then I'm like well let's just chalk that
up to my education however has the way I
know that there are a lot of people who
are probably not like that who are not
super scrappy and like that's not that's
not a segment that's built into
everybody not everybody has a business
background like you said a lot of
creatives don't have any of that
business but it
and so having somebody like you who has
done all that everything is figure out
able and figured it all out and now can
just like package it into something like
this it's so valuable for a lot of
people so instead of having that
Education Fund of all the glass or you
spend your money on now you can actually
just spend it on education and skip all
those I love that word scrappy I feel
like everybody that is just that is a
way of life being scrappy I just I think
it's like a really it's so very like
friendly likeable word and I just really
have a lot of respect for people who
figure it out I can't tell you I mean
honestly maybe it's pushed me into
getting to creating this course and the
end in the end it is a really positive
thing but I can't tell you the number of
times a mail so again I'm sure you get
this name of people just like wanting me
to answer their questions and I'm like
it's all out there for them it's all out
there for them and honestly my answers
may not be what they need to hear like
if I feel like for everybody their
journey is different and yeah it
frustrates me so much when people just
don't go and try to figure it out
themselves first at least like of course
ask for help and that's what community
is about and like I I'm not saying that
at all
but at least at least try yes yeah
Google at first
yeah and now hopefully if they google it
they'll come across your course so yeah
speaking of your course can you tell us
a little bit about what's in it and like
you know if what people would get out of
it if if what we just went through is
stuff that they're interested in and
they want to go deeper yeah for sure
so at first I was feeling like is this
good I don't know like is this so people
need and then I tested it out on a group
of 13 like beta testers and we made it
that much better and now I can honestly
say like it's a wicked course like I
feel I don't feel like I'm you know sell
it over selling it or anything it's it's
amazing and well you know what I don't I
don't doubt that just by looking at this
freebie that you made for everybody like
the gravy is so good I really like
writing writing is really my passion so
it's everything the first
it's six modules first one is like
wholesale basics so like you the
question you asked like what's the
difference between wholesale and
consignment a little like basic stuff
that some people will zip through but
it's also about preparing your business
for wholesale so like a lot of people
who are starting or like do I need to
register my business like what about an
HST number like one of the lot what
about insurance all this stuff like that
and I I hated figuring all that stuff
out and so I was like it would be really
valuable for me to just spell it out I
should also mention I know you have a
wider reach that it's still very it's
all the same rules apply to the US but
as far as like the tax stuff and that
kind of information this is very
specific to Canadians however the whole
set just the tech just the insurance and
that kind of stuff the rest of us so I
guess if yeah if someone if someone
outside of Canada bought it the only
things that wouldn't apply are like the
tax exactly the best part of it is I
include all of the templates so like I
find it really people are really
intimidated when I say like as a shop
owner if somebody's reached out to me
and say like I make these earrings would
you like to carry them and I reply and I
say can you send me your line sheet and
order form and it usually just like
shuts them down so a line sheet like I
was saying is a like a mini catalog
that's just brink description and a
picture and like minimum quantities all
that stuff and so I give templates for
creating line sheets templates for
creating your order form in both like
canva and Excel we even do email drafts
like I've written all of your emails for
doing your outreach and your follow-up
emails and everything so it just sort of
takes all of that the hard work stuff
out of it the hard non-fun stuff out of
it terms and conditions I give you like
a template for that so you would edit it
based on the things that you care about
with your product so I feel like that is
really where a lot of the value is it
feels I'm feeling really proud of it
it's like really comprehensive and easy
to understand and perhaps best of all is
that I once you've bought the course you
also are welcomed into a private group
where everybody can help each other so
for me always community is the best
is the best resource and so I'm hot I
first I was like do I want to do this
don't imagine other Facebook group but I
feel really passionate about finding
ways for creatives to be long-term
successful and make money doing what
they love like for a living oh what a
dream right clearly yeah that's I mean
you've empowered a lot of people to do
that with your shop on your shows and
now this course and so that's awesome
okay well I will obviously link to all
of that stuff okay down below and as
this videos going live it's available
right for people so yea but yeah i'll
link to everything down below but other
than your course can you tell people
where to find you what's the best place
to find more of you i live mostly on
instagram at cheerfully made and all of
my links would be in my profile there so
yeah cheerfully made calm cheerfully
made on instagram facebook that's pretty
cool or in person in Elmont that's what
I was gonna say or re yeah yeah you can
grow this shop yeah you can go to the
shop amazing okay well Emily thank you
so much for coming on here I hope people
got a lot out of it I know they will and
if they go to your to your course
they'll get even more so yeah I
appreciate your time and hopefully I'll
meet you out a real in person market
sometime soon
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you
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