hello welcome what's in the lato slaw
I'm Steve Leto a couple points of
interest first of all I've got to tell
you a top row behind me the microphones
number one eight and nine from your left
to right we're just donated to me by a
viewer
thanks a lot Greg for those they add
wondrous things to the collection and
second of all today's topic comes to us
from Pete who asked me Steve if I've got
a judgment against somebody how do I
collect it and he indicated that he
might have a reason for asking that
question I suspect that he or someone he
knows has a judgment which they would
like to collect and I can ask this
question a lot because if you want to
you know sue somebody get your money
they owe you money for some reason suing
them and winning is only the first step
now the next step is where you try to
collect the money based on the judgment
but it can be difficult it might not be
difficult it depends what kind of defend
that you're dealing with so for instance
General Motors Ford or Chrysler who I
sue all the time I lemon law claims pay
me okay
in fact most my cases settle so long
before I get a judgment it's not even an
issue okay but there are occasions where
you get a judgment against somebody it's
a piece of paper from the court that
says yes this person owes you money and
the court will enforce this debt if need
be and that's the important thing to
remember is the judgment actually comes
with the force the courts behind it so
like I said we're not gonna talk about
how to get the judgment I've talked
about that before different context but
once you've got the judgment you've got
a piece of paper from the courts as
judgment it's in your favorites against
somebody else and and I've mentioned
before also that that some of the most
disappointing things in my career were I
got judgments judgments against
uncollectible entities and by entities I
mean I sued a corporation the
corporation went bankrupt and the
corporation bankruptcy got the judgment
discharged so my clients got nothing
I've also had it happen before my
clients got something but they got you
know 50 cents in the dollar instead of a
dollar on the dollar so the first thing
you remember is the moment you get a
judgment okay assuming it's collectible
the the interest meter is running on it
so if you get a judgment against
somebody and it takes a while for you to
collect it you're gonna get you're gonna
get you're gonna post-judgment interest
on that judgment so they owe you ten
thousand
and takes him a couple years to pay you
you're gonna get a substantial amount of
interest if in fact you get them to pay
everything but you have to I'm not gonna
get into the math here but you actually
to calculate this out and figure out
what the interest is at any given point
in time
so you do get to collect the full amount
your judgment plus interest so there are
now the obvious question arises well how
do you get someone to pay you okay and
once in a while someone will chime in I
want my videos and go well the key here
is that you simply make yourself
judgment proof as as if there's some
like switch you can flip and make
yourself judgment proof and it is true
that some people are very very difficult
to collect from but it's almost
impossible in our day and age to become
judgment proof so the first thing I
remember is judgments actually last for
10 years if it's gotten in small claims
court it might be a little shorter but
but quite often a typical judgment is
good for 10 years and the other thing is
to remember that at the end of the 10
years you can go into court and get it
renewed so in theory if you've got a
judgment against an individual you can
chase him for 20 years if you want to
you know so leave it hanging out there
most people by the way when they get a
judgment against them if they think
about it they realize oh wait a second
this judgments going to destroy my
credit so it's in their best interest to
pay it off but let's assume that you got
a judgment against somebody it's an
individual and they haven't gone
bankrupt and they just simply don't want
to pay what can you do so believe it or
not there's a couple things you can do
with the court where the court will help
you try to collect the money that
someone owes you so the first thing you
can do is you can you can drag the the
the person owes you the money into court
for an examination okay and and by
examination you're gonna get to ask them
the questions under oath okay
and so there's there's a form for that
it's it's a it's actually a subpoena and
and you simply check the boxes on it
that you're doing this you know asking
someone to come in and testify about
their assets and you actually fill the
subpoena out you get the court to enter
it and they give you a true copy and
then you have to have this haven't
served on the person that you have the
judgment against keep in mind that you
cannot serve the judgment yourself if
you're a party to the case that the
subpoena arises from
and it can't be an interested party it's
got to be a competent adult sometimes
you just had the court do it for you
processor it's gonna cost you a couple
bucks but you know it's probably worth
it and then you drag that person into
court and make them testify about their
assets you can ask them where they work
where they bank what assets they have
what things they own you can sit there
and poke at them and ask all these
personal questions about where they've
got their money if they've got their
money or whether they've got their
assets I can tell you right now that I
brought somebody in for one of these
exams and asked them where all their you
know where all the banks were what their
bank account numbers were and then the
next day issued a bunch of garnishments
on those banks to get the money you know
that's one thing you can do if you find
out what somebody works you can garnish
their wages and again you get a form
from the court to you know warm for
garnishment when you get it into the
court you send it to the employer the
employer then files a report back is
that much as a person makes and then
they can take a percentage out and
you'll you'll get these periodic
payments you can also subpoena and
actually seize their tax returns if they
actually get money back in the tax
returns another form you can do for that
so that's actually you know another
standardized thing you can do so one of
the things I have to let people know is
that if you think your judgment proof if
you're sitting there listening he's
going to Steve I'm judgment proof okay I
I don't put money in the bank I've got
it all on a shoebox underneath my bed if
you ask me about it I'll deny that it's
there so you'll never know it's there
and I for a guy who pays me cash and and
if you ask them I work there he'll deny
it
and I make so little money that I don't
get money back from the feds and
basically off the grid how can you you
know what can you possibly do well one
of the things you can do is you can drag
the person for creditors exam find out
where they live
ask them about stuff they own and then
you get a writ of execution on their
property and a route of execution and
property is again a document you fill
out and you take it to court the court
enters it and assigns it and then you
get that writ you give it to a court
officer or a sheriff's deputy who's
licensed and authorized and bonds it to
do these things and I've done this
before I've done this many times and in
fact I've had a couple defendants who
just absolutely refused to pay any money
and so I get the writ of execution and I
stick a court officer on him and I
actually got to know one of the court
officers very very well we did a bunch
of these for me
and his name is Vic and I remember
sending the paperwork over to Vic and
about a week later he calls me and he
goes hey Steve I'm standing on this
guy's front porch right now he's crying
do you want to talk to him and I go sure
do you think it'll help
next thing an old guy gets in the phone
it goes hey mr. lado there's a court
officer here who's threatening to take
my car and I've got a couple cars and
he's threatening to take one of them and
how do I make him go away
and I said well can you give him the
money for the judgment instead of giving
him your car and he goes well if I can
go to the bank yes so I go hand the
phone back to Vic
so they hand the phone back to Vic Vic
goes what's going on I go he's gonna go
with you to the bank and cut you uh some
kind of cashier's check or money order
or something that's good instead of
letting you take his car and if it goes
ok cool you know that's it so the point
is that if the court officer shows up at
your place and since I've got a writ of
execution against your property you're
allowed to exempt some of your property
from execution but not all of it and if
you've got a bunch of stuff the court
officer could haul it all off and what
he does he hauls it off he auctions it
and then he takes the money from the
option to pay himself and then to pay
towards the you know reducing of the
debt and the judgment and the bad news
for you is that when something gets
seized in that kind of an auction
setting and gets taken to an auction and
sold that's the worst kind of auction of
your stuff sold at because people go
what see the stuff was seized by a court
officer we don't know if it runs we
don't know the clean titles we don't
know anything about it so you're going
to get literally pennies in the dollar
and I actually had a business I'll just
say in Detroit that was obstinate
meaning that they refused they refused
to respect the fact I had a judgment
against them and I contacted their
attorney and their attorney because my
client doesn't want pay and I go well
you understand what a judgment is right
him you're an attorney all right he goes
my clients not gonna pay this and I said
well you know I don't know that was
their bargaining position like you know
hoping that I come back and say well
we'll take less
but I said well you know if it's gonna
get ugly is gonna get ugly but I you
know I'd rather use cut me a check and
the guy goes well I don't I don't know
you know what you think you can do but
knock yourself out
well the funny thing about it is is that
post-judgment actions don't involve the
same notices that pre-judgement actions
do so if I'm involved in a lawsuit with
you and your opposing counsel and the
case is going along every time I pass
through the corner kind of file copy
with you so you know what's happening
with the court case but when I file a
writ of execution with the court I just
serve a copy on the defendant and
usually the guy who serves its my court
officer is also executing on it and I've
actually had my guy call me up and say
Steve I'm gonna go execute in that
judgment tomorrow and I say okay and I
and I just stay by the phone and wait
for the inevitable phone call and I
almost always get a phone call from a
defense attorney and I remember the
particular case I'm thinking of the guy
calls me up screaming at me going I
can't believe you're executing on a
judgement I said well you really want to
told me your client wasn't gonna pay and
he goes well yeah I know but that's
negotiation let's let's let's you know
let's negotiate as well you know it's a
little too late now because my guys at
your guys place apparently executing
right now hauling off stuff and my court
office had brought a u-haul and was
emptying all the equipment out of this
guy's shop and my guy is free you know
it might my opposing counsel is freaking
out going but my guys can get a business
and I said that's not my problem
I don't think and see here's the thing
it's always better people cooperate with
you something calls you goes okay oh you
the money I'd like to work something out
can we work something out the court
actually allows most individual
defendants to go into court and get a
payment plan to protect them from the
person's got the judgment against them
so if you get a judgment against an
individual okay and you're thinking
yourself should I execute on their stuff
or or you know one thing you disc a look
we are you willing to make payments just
something to indicate that you plan on
paying this because if if you just
ignore the judgment and you know ten
years from it will expire if you don't
renew it so you want to take steps and
action on this thing and so if you if
you asked somebody are you willing to
make payments if they're willing to make
payments let them make payments you know
and
make payments and they're making
substantial payments it makes sense and
I've seen it happen a lot of times where
somebody says hey look you know I can't
pay you the ten thousand now but I can
pay you you know five hundred bucks a
month so I'm paid off interest is
running on that if you want to do it and
you know if you think that's the best
way to get the money do it you know but
like I said when when when the attorney
called me from the defense you know on
behalf of his client whose stuff is
being hauled into u-hauls right now I
don't have a lot of sympathy and I just
say well you know can you guys cut a
check right now for the full amount of
the judgment they go no and I go what
what could you come up with and I always
you know the I've had attorneys goal
will you stop your guy while we're
negotiating a know some of the best
negotiating tools I can possibly have
I've got a sheriff's deputy at your guys
place of business hauling out all of his
equipment it's gonna put him out of
business
maybe this will motivate him to pay me
you know who knows and I and I've and
I've had that happen more than once so
you know like I said you can execute on
their property you can garnish their
wages you can garnish their tax returns
and all of these things can be done and
there's a variety quark forms you can
get on this the cool thing is that all
these court forms are online now at
least in Michigan they are I've heard
from people in other states there's a
couple states out there that don't have
their laws online and don't have their
illegal forms online and that's a very
sad situation because I think nowadays
with the internet it's so easy for a
state to put all that stuff online put
the laws online so you can read them put
all the forms online so you can fill
them out yourself and you know whenever
I go to print out a form I used to have
a disk that had all the forms on it I'd
actually load the disk into my computer
and download the form and nowadays it's
it's faster for me just to search it
online and pull it up and fill it out of
my screen it's in you know so that's
that's what you do but all of this stuff
is pretty straightforward but the key is
the key is that there are ways that you
can get this money and you can get
someone to pay you and if somebody and
again like I said I know I'm gonna get a
couple comments people saying Steve I'm
judgment proof and I'm planning on being
judgment proof for the next ten years
well it's kind of like a cockroach
bragging about its longevity okay and
cockroaches apparently can withstand
many many things but I
no I want to live the life of a
cockroach and so the question is the
life you live as a person who is
judgment-proof means that you can't use
bank accounts you can't have a regular
job you can't get tax or you know
refunds and you can't have any assets of
any real value because any assets you
acquire you know things you know we can
execute on those things and every now
and you hear a funny story and and the
one I'll tell you and I won't get too
greatly into details because there's so
much of it is online but there was a
Tigers pitcher for the Detroit Tigers on
him Denny McLain he's the last pitcher
to win 31 games in a year and in his
prime he was just insanely good and
unfortunately after he got out of
baseball he fell on hard times by that I
mean with legal problems he spent some
time in prison ran into all kinds of bad
business dealings and he wound up
getting sued a bunch of times and I
remember seeing an article paper not too
long ago were people were out there at
his house executing against his property
because somebody got a judgment against
him that he hadn't made good at that
moment in time so go online look that
stuff up I'm not making it up and every
now and then you hear about these
stories where somebody you know didn't
pay a judgment or they didn't keep track
of a judgment next thing you know the
sheriff's deputy is showing up going
we're here to take your stuff so you
have to be aggressive if you wait for
someone to pay you they might think
you're gonna go away ten years down the
road you may have to go away if the
judgment expires now like I said you can
renew it but again you should take
action on it and I've discovered that
when somebody gets judgment against them
you've got to wait for 21 days
usually the period of the appeals period
yeah gotta let that run to make sure
that can appeal it but after 21 days you
can start executing us of I see on day
22 go after him let him know that you're
not gonna just roll over the way from
the throw money at you and you know it's
interesting I'll give you one last life
lesson here I served a guy with a
subpoena to show up for creditors exam
and the creditors examine that
particular court had to be conducted at
the courthouse so I went the courthouse
checked in with my client and the
subject of the creditors exam who had
the judgment against who never showed up
and the judge calls the case and I stand
up again Your Honor I'm here but the guy
who owes the money isn't here the judge
goes okay I'll issue a bench warrant for
his arrest and so a bench warrant got
issued for the man's arrest because he
didn't show up for court and that thing
to show up says you know it's an actual
court order to show up and on a Friday
afternoon about four o'clock about three
weeks later I got a phone call from a
court clerk who goes Steve your guy
identified in that subpoena just got
pulled over for a routine traffic
violation and when they ran his license
they found the outstanding bench warrant
from our court and he got arrested on it
he's sitting in jail right now and I
said okay and she said do you want to
take his creditors exam and I said of
course I do and she goes okay well the
earliest we can get to him is Monday how
his Monday sound for unison money sounds
good for me and she was okay the guy sat
in jail Friday night all day Saturday
all day Sunday and a couple hours on
Monday they brought him to the
courthouse
I took his exam then he left I spent
three days in jail now he didn't spend
three days in jail because he owed money
he spent three days in jail Exige nor to
court corner but I realized that maybe
you weren't going what's the difference
well that's what happens and in case
you're curious
during that exam I found out where he
worked I dropped the thing on his
employer and said how much money does
the guy make and there's a formula and I
started getting checks periodically
every time that guy got a paycheck we
got a check do the math subtracted out
boom boom boom it was a accounting mess
but we got our money eventually but like
I said some guy spent three days in jail
so the key is to be aggressive you can
do this stuff and if you're confused you
can actually go online in fact if you're
in Michigan type in how to collect on
your judgment and you'll get a state
pamphlet on it where it says collecting
your money from a small claims judgment
but it's the same thing small claims
regular whatever you've got a judgment
against somebody there's steps you can
go through collect all eight up there
the forms are laid out there and this
can be done without an attorney whether
you should or not yeah you know I you
gonna have to contour and get a couple
questions cancer for you quickly I walk
through people peoples is all time but
it's fairly easy to do but you
gotta be aggressive and you got to do it
so that's how you collect money on a
judgement thanks for watching thanks for
listening bye