Four Keys To Selling Services: How to Sell Services To Businesses & Become a Personal Branding Pro

welcome to another edition of the do

this selmour show I am Dave Lorenzo and

today we're going to talk about how you

as an entrepreneur can leverage niche

marketing and speaking to grow your

business and today I am honored to have

someone who I use as a case study all

the time my friend my longtime client

mr. Brad gross let me tell you a little

bit about Brad and why you want to hear

from him today and the reason you want

to hear from him is because he's doing

exactly what I tell you to do all the

time he is leveraging his unique ability

as a professional speaker to grow his

business but he's focused on a niche

market Brad is an attorney and he's

based in Weston Florida he owns the law

firm of well the law firm of Bradley

gross that's his name that's the name of

his firm he focuses on intellectual

property and he works with technology

businesses and he even gets more

specific than that he's an expert in a

couple of very focused areas in

technology but his background is that he

started the way many lawyers start he

was a prosecutor in New York and then he

was a prosecutor down in Florida and

then he decided he wanted to get into

what his passion was and that was

technology so he really immersed himself

in the area of technology law became an

expert in that and now is like the

godfather of what are called managed

service agreements Brad's gonna tell us

all about that he's gonna tell us how he

focuses on being an entrepreneur first

and then a lawyer second and he's going

to demonstrate to us the skills he uses

as a professional speaker to build his

business before we get into all that

let's welcome him to the show Brad

welcome to the do this selmour show hey

Dave nice to be here all right so Brad

is obviously coming to us either from a

prison cell a hotel room or the bedroom

of his home so Thank You Brad for

joining us hopefully you get out on work

release soon yes well I I'm working from

the home office in the bedroom which is

much preferred to the sterile office

setting that I'm normally working at

them so I'm actually you

happy to be here and happy just to be

relaxed in this environment talking to

you and this is the beautiful thing

about being an entrepreneur you get to

do what you do best from whatever

environment you want to do it in and I

have the kind of relationship with Brad

where I can kid him so those of you who

are watching on YouTube please I need

you to understand that he's obviously

not in a prison cell if it is a prison

cell it's the nicest ly appointed and

furnished prison cell on the planet so

Brad talk to us a little bit about why

you chose technology law for your focus

in the first place how did you pick

technology law well I would like to

think that I didn't pick technology law

as much as technology picked me I

started out at a very young age age 10

or 11 as a programmer as a small

computer hacker how my little trs-80

model 1 level 2 with a 300 baud modem

and you know that was my passion they

say that you should always pursue your

passion in life well that was my passion

from a very very young age it's sort of

evolved into what it is today and I

think that because it started out as my

passion it probably is the reason why I

enjoy doing it so much why I find it to

be very comforting very stable and and

simply it doesn't feel like work all the

time I mean sometimes it does right I

mean work is still work but it feels

very natural because I pursued something

that I was passionate about that I

really started out with a young age and

turned it into something that has really

grown into a really great practice you

know Brad you mentioned that it doesn't

seem like work and to me that is such a

huge point that a lot of people miss

especially in the practice of law I I

know a lot of lawyers I know a lot of

entrepreneurs and one of the things that

the serial entrepreneur and the lawyer

has in common is they don't want to go

to the office every day and it's for two

different reasons the serial

entrepreneur has a five year time


he wants to get out of that business the

lawyer doesn't want to go to the office

every day because he absolutely hates it

he'd rather have a colonoscopy than

going to the law office and deal with

his partners you have hit on something

that I talk with a lot of my clients

about and generally when people come to

me and they say hey I need help

developing business I say well tell me

about what your unique ability is tell

me what your talents are I tell me what

you really enjoy it has nothing to do

it's completely separate from the

business that they're actually in so you

hit on the fact that you love what you

do so it doesn't really even seem like

work and for me that's a that's a key

point because if you're gonna spend all

this time developing messages that

resonate with your target audience it's

easier when you're already inside the

mind of your target audience so tell us

who are your ideal clients and what are

they most concerned about like right now

who's your ideal client and what are

they most concerned about so my ideal

client would be a technology provider

and by that I mean somebody who either

has technology and wants to provide it

to others to make their lives easier

more profitable right more productive or

or a company that requires the

technology to make itself more

profitable more efficient and so forth

and that's a pretty big niche when you

start thinking about it so the ideal

client is really a client that requires

not only technology but but needs to

reduce if not eliminate liability in

their lives that's really what it comes

down to you know I represent media

companies or represent digital agencies

managed service providers value-added

resellers equipment manufacturers and so

forth we represent them globally and the

one thing that they all have in common

regardless of size regardless of product

or service is that they all want to have

virtually no liability or at least have

a reduced level of liability in this

liturgist society we live in

so in order to do that they look for

people who not only understand the

liabilities they face

but understand what they do at a

grassroots level right it's not just you

know I'm not for example a guy who

understands computers and went to law

school I'm I started off as a little

computer hacker I'm not somebody who

just turns on the computer and says yeah

I understand how to use this operating

system and that really that grassroots

understanding helps companies feel

comfortable it makes them realize that

you know what you're talking about

and it also makes them realize that

they're not going to pay to teach the

person they're speaking to to learn

their business the person they're

speaking to namely me or my staff we

understand the business already and that

comes from as we said earlier you know

pursuing your passion and turning that

into a job turning it into your career

alright so Brad how did you end up

picking manage services as a as a market

niche what from a from a business

strategy standpoint made you select that

area well I saw the need so we're going

back to around 2000 to 2003 when

computers generally we're starting to

become what they called back then

distributed so they started to

distribute information into various

locations different physical locations

instead of just being on one desktop

suddenly you know things started to

become distributed over broad geographic

areas and that need created the need for

distributed computing created the need

for agreements and and understandings

between technology companies and the

people that they were serving and I saw

that need you know we would have I would

have a client that would come in and

start discussing its distributed network

and how it wanted to expand and maybe

move things into the internet and you

can leverage the internet and the web

more often than not and I listened and I

find that and you know really if I think

back to some of the keys

that that launched me into this area it

wasn't so much that I made these

aggressive steps and and moved into this

area it was more than I listened I

listened to what people were asking for

I listened to what they were starting to

do and when you really listen and you

think gee that's a problem how do we

solve that that will push you in the

right direction so I think that keeping

your pull your finger on the pulse of

the industry and talking to clients not

just about what the need is on the table

in front of them right now but what are

their goals three years out five years

out and so forth they'll tell you what

they need and if you can figure out a

way like I did to leverage what you do

to satisfy that need then not only do

you have a client at that moment you're

gonna have a client for the next three

to five years and that's what I did I

love it that's great

so how has that benefited your business

how have you been able to reap the

rewards of focusing on exactly what your

clients need and delivering it to them

so it's benefited my business obviously

because we from a very very early point

from almost the its infancy of

distributed computers which is now

become managed service providers and so

forth you know we I got in at the ground

level and I've been working with it ever

since so that helps obviously my

business because we were there first and

I think that we probably have the most

obvious conspicuous presence in that

part of the industry it also helps the

business because when you do what you

love to do and you do what your passion

is and you do that which you understand

best that comes across that comes across

to your clients that comes across to the

people who are considering hiring me

especially you know where I see it is in

these what I call the fashion shows all

right the fashion shows so a client

technology client will come in to the

office and they want to talk to me but

they're also interviewing a lot of other

law firms right they're interviewing the

thousand-person law firm

of the 500-person law firms and then

they'll come into a boutique firm like

mine because they're doing their due

diligence and what I have found is that

because I pursue my passion and because

I am engaged in things that I really

like doing they will often most often in

fact virtually always hire my boutique

firm for that need because it comes

across the understand that oh here's a

guy who understands what we do yeah

that's a big law firm out there and you

know they might have five hundred people

but they're just going to bounce my

thing around until they find the right

person there and no one's really gonna

get me here's somebody right here's

somebody who knows exactly what he is

doing in what in my area and so it

really benefits the firm it really does

it's helped my career it's benefited me

in that I have been able to convey ideas

and philosophies and strategies to

technology clients that others simply

can't perfect very good description

thanks very much for that so if you're

just joining us folks and you're just

dropping in somehow you stumbled upon

this video and YouTube my name is Dave

Lorenzo everyday I host a show called

the Dave Lorenzo daily at 5 p.m. on

YouTube once a week every Thursday at 12

noon I host a show where I interview an

author and expert or the CEO of a

company who is absolutely killing it

today our guest is Brad Gross he owns a

law firm in Weston Florida and his focus

is on helping technology service

providers and digital agencies with

their legal needs and he does exactly

what I tell people to do all the time he

leverages speaking engagements to grow

his business and he focuses on a very

specific market niche we're gonna

continue to talk to Brad and I want to

get into how he leverages his incredible

ability to be a fantastic speaker but

before we do that if you're joining us

on YouTube you need to hit that big red

subscribe button you need to punch that

subscribe button and ring the bell the

reason you need to do that is because I

want you to be notified when we go live

with interviews just like this and today

if you were watching live you would have

noticed that the lights went out and we


reboot everything you missed that if

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to see so please hit the subscribe

button ring the bell if you're listening

on the podcast please join us over on

youtube we've got all kinds of great

stuff over there all right Brad now I

want to talk about your ability to grow

your business leveraging speaking

engagements how did you when did you

first realize that you were able to use

speaking engagements from a business

development perspective and then when

did you realize that speaking was going

to be your primary method to introduce

yourself to new people in your market

niche well I would like to say that I

realized that early on and that I

pursued it and I honed that skill but

that would be disingenuous the genuine

answer and I know you weren't expecting

it nor did you solicit this is that I

realized that when you told me that that

was really you know that could have been

my strong point and we're going back

what now about 10 years ago 11 years ago

when when I started to work with you so

kudos to you and you just got an

unsolicited endorsement but it's true I

was doing speaking engagements back then

because you know I was told that I had

to get in front of a bigger audience the

problem of course is that it doesn't

just relate to getting in front of a

bigger audience you have to have a

message right you have to have a

strategy going in you have to have a

message that you're trying to deliver

you have to think about the pain points

of the audience that you're speaking to

and you have to do it in a way that is

jargon free and if you can you know

perfect those skills which you helped me

do again unsolicited endorsement for

those listening it will it will launch

your career it will push your

productivity exponentially and that's

really what I did with your help and and

experience I engaged you know not just

any speaking engagement I didn't just

get in front of any crowd that would

have me because you could always find a

crowd that will have you right you'll

always find some

yeah we need a speaker come on in no you

first have to find your target audience

and and figure out who that is and you

also want to make sure in my opinion

that the target audience has the ability

to hire you or to make a decision

because if you're speaking to people who

do not make decisions well then you're

gonna feel real good about yourself but

it's from a career perspective from a

business perspective it doesn't really

help you right that was the issue when I

you may remember Dave that there was a

time that I was on NBC TV I was a

talking head for Technology law was

great you know I had a lot of fun it was

great for the ego I would be on TV and

so forth but I wasn't reaching a target

audience I wasn't reaching CEOs no CEO

was watching me at 4 o'clock in the

afternoon on the local news talk about

technology and computer law so you know

I think that the skill set of target

audience message pain points and jargon

free I think those are the keys to

speaking and acquiring clients from your

speaking engagements perfect very very

very well said and I appreciate your

kind words explain to the audience that

you don't just show up throw up and

leave you actually you have a plan going

in and then what do you do to make sure

that each time you go to speak you come

away with solid leads and you convert at

least some of the people in that room

into business how do you make sure that

you take the buts that are in the seats

and convert them into clients well the

best way to convert a an attendee into a

client is well there are two ways you

either teach them something that they

didn't know what they should write and

make them aware of an issue I should say

that they have a problem they have that

they didn't know they add but now they

realized it or of course you touch upon

an issue that they're well aware that

they have a problem that they're they're

well aware of and again convey the idea

that you're the person to help them

solve it so

you know I think that the very initial

example that you gave me 10 plus years

ago and I have stolen the idea and I've

told it several others these is that it

was the idea of the physical I'm going

into a doctor's office and for a

physical and yeah you remember that and

I'm I'll convey it in 30 seconds or less

now when you go into a doctor's office

and you ask for a physical and they give

you a physical you know and they put you

down in the schedule for two weeks or so

you don't think much of it because it's

two weeks from now and then of course if

the day after the physical you get a

call saying look we think we saw

something we're not sure we want you to

come on back into the office and take a

look and then I remember you asked me

Dave you said if I then said come back

in two weeks how would you feel and I

remember looking you and saying well I

don't want to come back in two weeks I

want to come back right now and you told

me right I want everyone in your

audience to feel like you just told them

you saw something on their x-ray you saw

a little something might not be big but

you saw something and I want everyone to

walk out of that room thinking I have to

go see this guy now because he thinks he

saw something well the same goes for

every speaking engagement that you that

you do that you engage in you have to

make the audience understand that not

only do you understand their problems

and their issues but they have these

problems they have these issues and that

the way they're going to solve them is

not by you know feeling good about what

they're doing or leadership roles within

their company it's the way they're going

to solve their problems by calling you

or if I'm speaking by calling me that's

what you need to do you need to touch

that pain point and make sure that they

understand that not only is it a pain

point they have but you're the guy or

you're the woman who can solve can fix

that pain point that's the strategy that

you taught me that I pursue and that

launched a career that has led to my

boutique law firm all right well so tell

our folks that are watching now tell the

people who are who are watching us on

YouTube listening on the

cast on Spotify iTunes whatever tell

them specifically how you acquire these

speaking engagements now what the way

you get speaking engagements now is very

different from when you first started

how do these engagements come to you now

so how they come to me now is largely by

word of mouth okay because when you

speak at one in two events and you're

seen and people like you they start

talking and when they start talking

other events sort of pick up on that and

they'll reach out to us that is the way

that candidly it's happening right now

however it's not it hasn't always been

like that and I think in order to get to

that position what you're first needs to

do is you need to talk to your clients

you need to talk to the people that are

your customers and you ask them what

events do you go to what what where do

you what do you read what industry

magazines do you read what events do you

go to in the next six months where do

you see yourself attending alright and

then they'll tell you I mean they have

very definite ideas about what they read

and where they go and so on and at that

point you take that information and

quite candidly you simply call the venue

or you reach out to the venue and you

explain I'm so-and-so I deal with these

pain points I have a lot of customers

that have recommended your venue to me

or your your magazine to me and so on I

would like to talk to you about adding

value to what you do and I think that

those are the words that are very

important when you're trying to find a

speaking venue or a magazine that you

want to write for you're going to add

value not just to contributor not just

another speaker because speakers and

contributors or a dime-a-dozen

you add value and again I'm not saying

anything that you Dave don't already

know because you talk this to me I'm

just regurgitating it to you but

hopefully I get an A and in my

memorization and utilization skill add

value by asking your customers and your

clients where they go and what they do

it's a great source it should be your

first source

all right and the final point I want you

to I want you to bring out for our

audience is the value in giving a very

focused narrow presentation as opposed

to covering everything there is in an

entire universe you do a really good job

of picking a specific topic that is

right in the front of the mind of your

audience what's the value in doing that

oh it's crucial you know I learned as a

prosecutor way back when that a jury

will only remember the last question or

the last two questions that you you know

hammer a witness on a cross-examination

that last three days they're not going

to remember what you started with

they're not even gonna remember the

middle they'll remember the last five

minutes okay and why is that because we

can only you know we can only retain so

much in our brain right all the things

going on the distractions in life so you

really have to hit upon the two three or

four points that they're thinking about

that they will retain that your audience

will retain so when I go into these

speaking engagements I think what are

the three or four points that are really

keeping them up at night right that they

that the CEO looks up at the ceiling at

night and he or she thinks okay I'm not

gonna sleep tonight because of whatever

it is and they're usually two or three

or four of those points and you hit

those okay if you hit those and you put

those inside of a much larger

presentation you've diluted those

problems you haven't addressed those

problems but if you hit those and say

thank you call me I can help you with

those problems you're gonna get

callbacks you're going to get clients

because you've touched the pain point

you've done it in a way that is concise

and it is the strategy to making a

speaking engagement successful great

wonderful summary and folks if you're

wondering how you can get in touch with

Brad I'm putting Brad's contact

information in the description on

YouTube his contact information in the

podcast bio box that is included

wherever you get your podcast it'll also

be on my website right down below on the


right now I have Bradley grosses phone

number his contact information so that

you can call him directly and here's the

thing let's say you don't work in

technology Brad is a full-service

intellectual property attorney he

handles everything from trademarks to

copyright issues and if you're one of my

friends who fancies themselves as a

professional speaker you're a member of

the National Speakers Association Brad

Gross is going to be your best friend

because he can help you take your

content and license it to other people

because he also does licensing and if

you don't know what licensing is we

could probably do more than one show we

could probably do a series of shows on

that and Brad's an expert in that area

too I wanted him to come on today

because he's an entrepreneur and he

attracts new clients using speaking in a

very narrow niche market and he expands

his market out from there and that's why

I wanted him to come on the show and

speak with us today but he's a

full-service intellectual property

attorney if you work in the area of

intellectual property or you own a

business and you want to monetize your

intellectual property give Brad a call

he works all over the country because

intellectual property law is covered

under federal law

so he's licensed in Florida and New York

but he can work on intellectual property

issues all over the country Brad what is

the one thing the one thing you want

people to take away from the time that

we spent together today what would you

say is the one most valuable lesson that

we highlighted in our conversation today

pursue your passion I think pursue your

passion pursue the thing that you're

good at with or that you that you're

that you're good doing and and I think

that it can be incorporated into just

about any any job right if you like

technology then make your workplace more

technologically oriented right if you

are into art or you're into some sort of

I don't know anything that that really

piques your interest on a daily basis

try to see how you can incorporate that

not only into your physical surroundings

but into what you do and convey that to

your clients

them know that you're doing things that

you're passionate about that you love

because your clients will pick up on

that they will they'll pick up on that

they'll enjoy it they'll you it and

they'll pay for it they will definitely

engage you because you are knowledgeable

and doing what you love to do that's the

message I think that you need to convey

to what we've been talking about for the

past half hour or so very wise words

from a very wise man my very good friend

Brad Gross thank you for joining us

today and folks this is the do this sell

more show please check back with us next

Thursday at noon when we release a new


Brad it's been a pleasure having you on

thank you for joining us folks until

next week I am Dave Lorenzo and here's

hoping you do this and sell more