[Music]
hi and welcome to episode 22 of beating
bdd a podcast about body to small quick
disorder from the btd foundation in the
uk
i'm claire atherton and for this episode
i spoke to andy hall about his btd
ten years ago andy used to spend eight
hours a day in front of the mirror and
couldn't imagine ever being able to
function
now he works full-time as a social
worker and describes himself as 90 to 95
recovered
here's his story
[Music]
so hi andy welcome to the beating bgd
podcast thanks so much for coming on
hello how are you i'm very well we're
both quite excited today because we're
actually sitting on a prop in a proper
podcast studio on a boat called the boat
pod because recording at home has been
so dreadful during the pandemic hasn't
it and we actually did a recording
before that i had to ask you to redo
because it was so bad i'm not worried
i'm quite quite giddy right now as you
can tell by the sort of the shaking hand
i thought you wouldn't mind coming back
because you did seem to enjoy it the
first time
this is a mix of like joy and caffeine
um
so when we did the previous recording we
had a very great good chat um you were
saying that you're 90 to 95 percent
better from bdd these days so what does
that mean in practice what would you
like listeners to know about how that
feels just for a second but you can say
19
no no no um but yeah i think that
in terms of sort of
what what day-to-day life i think i
imagined
when i
began my recovery thinking that it would
look
like a sort of a daily oh i'm so happy
and full of joy and of course that's
that's not the reality for anybody when
they're in i think a healthy position
you know you have the the highs and the
positives
but there's also a normal amount of
just day-to-day isn't there in the
occasional lows because that's that's
life but i think that in terms of
specifics i
i would say that i feel
i think there's there's a just a nice
calm more than anything and then
suddenly there are those moments of
where i go oh i don't do that anymore in
that way i don't think that way or
behave that way and you know i think
that
i
find myself noticing what i'm not doing
more of what than what i do do and i
think that's the that's the real change
is that whether it's
i find myself sort of thinking oh my
goodness i can't remember the last time
i actually really mirror checked in in a
healthy way that made me feel really
anxious or i can't remember the last
time i looked in a car window or shop
window to check my appearance
and and that kind of thing i think
that's that's the real difference is in
terms of just how
i'm no longer
distracted from the things i want to do
that's fantastic
you also said something interesting
which was that when you used to tell
people how you felt about yourself they
would say but you're a good-looking
person so what would you say to someone
who might google you and say well he's
perfectly nice-looking man what so of
course he's feeling better see claire it
must be very hard for you sat so close
to an adonis in real life you know yes
i've escaped the greek pantheon to join
me today but um no i mean i think that
it's the classic eye of the beholder
situation isn't it is that
my experiences of
school and and bullying and developing
bdd
mean that when i was you know up until i
was about 20 i had such poor self-esteem
based on my appearance that like anybody
else would bdd
i saw myself in a certain way which
others didn't and you know i think it
would be
remiss to pretend that
you know that with the the very
height with a highly image focused you
know
nature of society and this you know the
idea that what is beautiful is good and
so forth and all those biases i won't
pretend that there aren't you know i
think
that my life in certain ways won't have
been easier as i've recovered because
i've gone i've been able to think oh do
you know what actually i'm i'm listening
to people saying nice things about the
wireless now that's that's very that's
helpful
i think that at on the same time i'm
sorry at the same time there is another
side to that which is
quite
i mean well it's interesting because i
think when people say nice things about
you and you don't feel that way then
that can come with an interesting degree
of shame and also i think that when
someone says oh but no but you look this
way how can you think otherwise
if if you try and build up that resource
of yeah do you know what i'm gonna get
comfortable with the way i look
interestingly with obsessive and
compulsive thinking it then becomes this
sometimes a worry of but what if i lose
that which i've sought for a long time
which is a feeling of you know
contentment or positivity about my image
because of course the other side of that
beauty obsession in society is the idea
of oh my god look how ugly they are now
they've gotten old my god look their
faces you know and you can so it was i
think
focusing on the middle ground
is
is the helpful thing for me you know
looking at the parts of life that aren't
to do with body image and the things
that i enjoy that give me a nice sense
of purpose yeah that was and brings me
on to what i was going to ask you about
next actually is how you think having
bdd has changed what you value in
yourself and others well i think that by
nature of getting older you shift from a
position of
focusing in you know highly as a
teenager in my experience because of
course i can only speak from my
experience you know about
um
body image and things like popularity
and status and i came from a very small
town with you know and so then you move
somewhere like london and it's a hugely
different kettle of fish i studied in
birmingham similar situation and i think
that
when when i realized over time that
everybody kind of thinks in you know
these these sort of ways at certain
points but then well we we grow don't we
and i think that it's you surround
yourself with people who are on
the same kind of wavelength of focusing
on i don't know whether it's doing
something like this and trying to help
other people with your experiences in
the way that you can or focusing on
something that you're passionate about
in your job you know
during lockdown i
started quite literally bird watching so
i was like do you know what there's not
much else to do these are nice aren't
they you know there's a pied wagtail not
that one you know like just these little
things that make life that give you nice
grounding
that's what i like to focus on
yeah interesting
so are you comfortable now to go back
and just tell me um your bdd stories and
when it started what you think brought
it on and then just in as many or as few
words as you want no worries yeah so i
think
when i was i think i remember
little sort of blips
at points of my sort of earlier
childhood
that i that i don't think would
necessarily be but obsessive compulsive
behaviors so i can remember playing in
the garden and and
repeating these verbal rituals that like
um so believing that if i didn't repeat
them then i just couldn't continue what
i was doing i had i had to keep saying
these things over and over and over
again like sort of uh almost like
capturing a screen a snapshot in time
almost like saving a video game that was
how i thought of it in my life like i
was sorry at the time
i thought by you know doing this and
then these remember i hit puberty and i
became incredibly obsessed with body
hair i was terrified of like my my body
changing i don't really know why i think
maybe it's the the societal pressures i
mentioned earlier the the context of
what we grew up in
and i was
you know that sort of
happened and then when i was about 17
um i decided after many years of
unfortunately being bullied for having
you know large ears that stuck out i
decided you know what
i will i'll have this pin back and i
think that
i i hadn't really
put two and two together for quite a
long time um
and
there was a nice period from between
about 14 to 16 or so where i grew my
hair i didn't worry about my ears and i
had a really i really enjoyed that that
time in my life
and then i went to a
grammar school and the the expectations
and the norms about appearance were
different you know there was
you know you you had short hair and so
forth and i thought well
this is terrifying and highly
unfortunate and not part of the plan so
i then had to what had to i felt as if i
had to take certain measures and my mum
reminds me that when i was really little
um apparently i was asked if i wanted to
go to the doctor and talk about my ears
and i said
no because people should accept me for
who i am
terrible awful i didn't know absolutely
how foolish of me no no and i think
that's a lovely that's one i love how
children in particular so i work with
children is that purity and that kind of
that that part of life i love um but of
course unfortunately the time i was
about 17 i thought right well i will
have to have my ears pinned back and i
can remember
the moment i kind of consider when i
started my bdd was then looking in the
mirror as the bandages came off and it
was this moment of things didn't seem
quite right
and i didn't really know what that meant
i mean i remember this sort of sinking
feeling and the first time i really felt
that sinking feeling in my chest of oh
god there's something wrong with me and
there's this is not what i wanted this
is not how i should look
sure it's a terrible word
and and i can remember thinking this
just isn't right
and
and then it kind of unfortunately began
from there i i well it escalated from
there and became very very prominent and
in my focus about you know my ears and
using my hair to cover my ears all the
proportion between my ears and the rest
of my head great time and then i
unfortunately i went uh i worked in a
a care home with dementia uh residents
for about a year and i can remember this
really
sort of pivotal moment of like
where
you know in that role which was
incredible for me it really helped me
grow up quite quickly
um at that point in my life
you know where you're caring for people
who are very vulnerable and often
because of their you know their
their health they they weren't sort of
obviously aware as much of their
environments in
in the same sort of way and
interestingly i had a lady look at me
when she saw me looking in a mirror and
or a glass window and she just had this
moment of clarity and said to me you
look fine i thought oh my god
the jig is up but um is that the word
anyway yeah um so
yeah so that was that was interesting
and then i went traveling with a friend
and unfortunately i don't really
remember it very well because i was so
unwell
um and and briefly went to university to
study
left and then quickly started accessing
um more biotherapy for the first time
and and that was kind of the beginning
of the recovery although i didn't really
know it yet
so i i ended up having some cbd uh sorry
cbt cbd i didn't pump me full of oil yes
exactly
that's later but you know good stuff
holland and barrett but um in terms of
you know the
that part of the recovery i think i was
just kind of getting to grips with
things to start with and i had six
months of nhs therapy and then a few i
was like okay well i need you know that
ended so i started you know i paid for
some private therapy
and and then unfortunately i don't think
the therapist and i were particularly a
good match she didn't i remember she
came to a therapy session and she was
like i printed off my notes on bdd i
thought you're not really not really
filling me with confidence here
wonderful news i put my shoes on today
we're both doing great so um
and then unfortunately after about three
months
um i of that so nine months in total i
was like okay i think this is a
physical problem so i then decided to
have another surgery
and
it's it's a it's a really
sensitive topic not so much to me but i
think just in terms of people who might
hear this is that
i feel that the surgery that i had
you know it
it made me quote unquote happier than my
first surgery
but
i
almost immediately
had an enormous blip and had to be
hospitalized because i was just so
unhappy still and i think this is the
real danger isn't it is that like you
know
objectively i had quite large sticking
out ears at certain points but actually
looking back at photographs when i had
this second surgery i look back at
beforehand and i'm like actually fine
quite like how i looked interestingly in
hindsight so in the moment it was a
panic i've got to do this i have to
there can you know
but then what really made the difference
you know what because i again i i don't
want to advocate for surgery but i also
understand that at that point in my life
it was
it felt like it was the only choice at
that point but what actually made the
difference
was the further therapy that i had which
was absolutely fantastic it was through
a um
an anxiety disorders
unit in
attached to the university of bath which
unfortunately i think is closed now um
but i had this absolutely fantastic um
therapy
duo um
um yeah called
uh claire and
my brain has shut down and it was great
uh james james yeah wow
shout out to them but um yeah no they
were they were absolutely fantastic and
and they really in three months
everything changed and it was that
exposure response prevention therapy you
know particular
bdd
specialized
cbt rather than generic
and i think that
it really it really did make the
difference and and then of course it was
a couple of years of like cementing
things but things did very quickly move
forward and
like i said i'm because of that therapy
i can now look back at pictures and so
forth from before
this surgery and think actually do you
know why i looked okay
and
you know and i think that's it isn't it
is that the
the psychological support is
is the like was the lifesaver but um but
yeah as i say i think it's over the last
the 10 years since then
things have got enormously better you
know that my life is
no well i think
just to be to be frank no one's life is
without body image moments even if it's
a slight moment of oh
i'd like to see you know i need to brush
my hair you know what i mean we have
that because of the world we live in and
because of i think i'll just our
biological drives don't we you know the
rest but i would absolutely say that i
am enormously happier and healthier than
ever
and and that's it's not like getting up
in the morning and there's like no
little birds on the windowsill and i'm
like good morning and then it's it's
more just a i'm i'm just content
for the most part that's fantastic yeah
are you able to describe what a typical
day might have looked like when you were
really ills bdd compared with what a day
might be like now
well yeah you would spend your time we
might say that those uh
those old days weren't particularly
productive but um
yeah no i mean i remember at the very
worst i was and i remember looking at
actually timing it looking back i was
spending eight hours a day in front of a
mirror going back going to the mirror
back to bed to the mirror back to bed on
facebook you know looking comparing with
people from
from school and and
university and that kind of thing
and
and this is my first stint at uni um
and i'm very glad to say i went back a
few years later and got my degree which
was which was great um
yeah it was fine it was it was brilliant
and
you know i think so that was that was
the worst where i i just could not
function i was
i yeah it was just it felt like my head
was in cotton wool at all times and
yeah and then from from now i mean i
think i just
i suppose i am just living
um but in the and i mean that in a
wonderfully
holistic way like i am i'm living life
you know i i
am able to do everything that i was
terrified i wouldn't be able to do in
the past so
um i remember as part of my therapy i
was you know i'd make a exposure
checklist for your checklist fear
hierarchy that's the one and at the very
top i was like there's absolutely no way
i can ever shave my head absolutely not
i did it
more than once you know and and things
like that and i'm like wow and this and
it's not like a moment of eureka it's
just like wow this is cool i've done it
and on to the next thing you know
i suppose
i'm just
i say calmer content
as much as anyone else i suppose can be
and i think that these experiences they
teach you a toolkit to survive the ups
and downs in life you know i mean i work
as a social worker so it's bloody
helpful but you know you you learn to
navigate things i think and support
other people with these skills and
experiences and and
and i think yeah so that's that was how
life is now it's just like i said i just
do things i don't have to worry about
you know
45 minutes of getting ready and will i
will i make out there will i not i i
just go
and and enjoy it and don't have those
sort of shackles anymore
and what about things like your
friendships and your family and
relationships and intimate relationships
have you found that everything's just
you have a chance to actually have those
good relationships now absolutely before
yeah no yes no absolutely yeah i think
my family and i
we through the
the challenge of it we became much
closer and through my friends i mean
there were a couple of friends i had who
unfortunately didn't understand but i
mean they were teenagers themselves but
those experiences have helped me to
solidify those friendships years later
um
and
you know in terms of
new friends i actually i saw a friend
yesterday and i suppose a new friend who
i said you know how how was your summer
and he said oh you know all right i'm
sorry summer how was your lockdown oh it
was all right you know apart from the
crippling body dysmorphic disorder i was
like um
[Music]
that sounds familiar and it's it's nice
how you can then kind of
you know if they're comfortable to have
these conversations with people about
and supporting them through those kind
of experiences and you know in terms of
personal relationships and so forth i
you know yeah i think that i'm i'm very
happy to
you know to date and do these
these things in life that maybe before
i would worry about judgment and so
forth but now i'm of the mind mindset
that you know
while we all
are part of this system of you know
as i've said i think that if i generally
meet people who are you know
particularly dismissive or judgmental
about appearance i think
absolutely not you know you're you're
absolutely not for me and that's fine
and and being you know not
letting yourself being
you know in in dynamics that make you
uncomfortable in real life realizing my
worth
mm-hmm
yeah
yeah that's interesting i think it does
sort of change the way you um sort of
rate people not rape people in time
right but sort of decide who's who you
want to spend time with doesn't that i
think
i would say that right people in a way
is is you know right in the sense of you
know who you think
i'm all right with that i'm not alright
with that because i think that there is
there is a real you know i think this
experience has definitely given me you
know real clarity into the keen pain and
destructive nature of of people who can
be you know when people are bullied and
when even even as adults you know when
you hear people are like comment on
people's
you know shapes and sizes and i think i
understand why we do it because it is
just so second nature i think it's part
of society sometimes but also that
doesn't make it it doesn't make it okay
and and you know
calling people out at times and saying
yeah i don't really think that's all
right and that can feel brilliant
because it kind of feels like you're
passing it on does that make sense yeah
totally just go back to the therapy
briefly so the erp was really helpful
why why do you think that is so
effective
so in terms of the
the nature of the disorder that you know
in terms of these ingrained thought
processes and behaviors you know the uh
the obsessions the compulsions and vice
versa i think that when you challenge
those kind of like
connections
and you know you you and you really face
those it's that classic thing you know
you see in all those you know kids
movies when you face your fears but it's
it's quite literally that isn't it i
think that um
when you realize
that actually you know the the fear
that you have drives
all of it um
and actually when you realize that
people
don't run in fear when they see your
shaved head or they don't you know
well i suppose even if people were to
you know to say something and you could
say you know
this isn't about this is about me
um or you know i don't think i already
had anything i had someone say to me
once my god but i preferred it when you
had long curly hair i thought well that
wasn't me so i don't know who you think
it was but you know
so did i looking like you know george of
the jungle but um yeah but i i don't
know i think that just
proving to yourself that actually
in like life continues
and and can be bloody brilliant even if
you
you know
go to the shop with your hair that's wet
or you
you know
i'm trying to think of specifics now go
to the beach and take your shirt off you
know i think it's
you i remember thinking that
as a nature of this kind of like
magnetism from from the illness where
you focus on people you compare yourself
to one of the things i found most
helpful to practice over the years is
for example sitting on the bus
and deliberately looking at all the
people i wouldn't
normally
get drawn to and think my god you know i
look at look at the diversity of all the
people out there shapes and sizes and
not one single one of them has any less
worth than anybody else even if maybe
you know
tv shows when i was a teenager told me
otherwise you know every single one of
these people has the right you know me
and you included to enjoy
the same activities and to to feel those
you know that that joy from whatever we
want to do in life and i think that's
that's something i remember is
we're all kind of in our own little
worlds aren't we but there's a lot of us
and
to notice that i think noticing is is
something that's really powerful over
time definitely
was there anything else in therapy that
you found helpful or anything at any
time that the therapist said to you that
you thought all right that's nails it
for me you know that really that really
resonates yeah absolutely those sort of
aha moments yeah yeah i think um i had i
mean what was interesting is that the
therapist
james he he
said to me something like you know
andrew look at me like you know i've got
you know
look at my physical appearance you know
um i've got a receding hairline but i'm
not worried about it you know like okay
like my teeth are slightly crooked but
i'm not worried about it you know like
i've got i love my job i have a
wonderful family you know i'm happy i'm
healthy and i thought wow you know i i'd
not even looked at him and judged him on
his appearance
and you know similar to that i had
a wonderful moment where they they sort
of took some pictures of me where i
would style my hair
before in this enormous quiff like you
know this tower and um
you know terrible like ceiling fans had
to duck out all the time but um you know
i had this moment they took pictures of
me before and after i wet my hair
and they then showed these pictures to a
series of students at the university you
know all very much with my consent and
so forth and they recorded
the first looking at one picture and
then the other and saying you know what
are your thoughts what do you think do
you think you know do you and i think
they asked in a series of like
positively neutral and positive neutral
and potentially in negatively intonated
questions and of course every single one
of them in
the most wonderful way we're like