How to Start a Bookkeeping, Payroll, Tax and Accounting Company that Makes Big Money

all right so my name is Rob satrom and

I'm the owner and founder of feedback

wrench before I had feedback wrench I

found it and built up nuanced financial

tax in the count and one of the most

successful tax and accounting firms here

in the Twin Cities and we served as an

outsourced accountant rather than being

focused on just tax returns and if you

are trying to get started I've got a

couple of videos out already I'm trying

to make more videos while I'm in the car

if you're an entrepreneur you know that

time in the car can be a very

detrimental thing because you're

basically wasting productive time right

and I do have meetings with great

clients that I want to go to I'm to and

from so I apologize about some of the

look and feel of this these videos we're

gonna try and use After Effects to make

them a little more interesting but I'm

gonna maximize this time if you're an

entrepreneur boy try and convert down

time to productive time and you're gonna

have a better time right but today I

want to talk to you about if you are a

young person that loves accounting right

if you're coming out of school and

you're like hey I think I want to get my

CPA I think I want to go work for a

corporation I want to tell you a little

secret that you might not know about the

tax game the tax accounting and

bookkeeping game so first of all if

you're hardwired to make sure that

systems are right you're a high

detail-oriented person and you love

helping people it like your the

checklist person being in administration

and being in a technical administration

role in the tax world as an accountant

is probably a good idea right so when

you're in school if you go to college

you're gonna want to pay attention and

learn your tea charts and understand

accounting to a tee

but here's what I want you to know you

do not need to spend a ton of time to go

get your CPA sure you can if you want to

you'll be able to use that as a title

but I want to encourage you to start

your own business now there's a guy out

there called Andrew argue and he does

CPA consulting and I intersected with

him and kind of paid attention to his

stuff and basically what he was doing is

charging thousands of dollars which I

know he adds great value who's charging

thousands of dollars to do consulting to

basically tell tax professionals how to

run their business like we were doing in

nuance financial tax in the coning if

you are thinking about starting a firm I

want to tell you right now that there's

a way that you can do this or we're all

you have is about 20 clients 20 clients

that you charge between $500 a month and

$1,000 a month you're gonna be able to

add a ton of value to them you're gonna

have a workflow in your life that's

manageable unlike a traditional firm

that focuses just on tax returns came

and here's the whole concept first off

rather than being a tax return CPA firm

or somebody who's like well they do

taxes on the side what you want to do is

serve as an outsourced accountant and

when you're an outsourced to come

there's three things that you're gonna

want to do first of all you want to help

mitigate taxes second of all you want to

save business owners time and the third

thing is you want to keep them compliant

that's the three things you're gonna

help mitigate taxes because none of them

want to pay more than their fair share

and that that should be kind of your

sentence I'm gonna help you pay your

fair share and not a penny more the

second thing has helped them save time

if you can be the administrator to run

the bookkeeping the payroll and even the

tax planning to just help that go on for

a business now that's the other thing

we're gonna focus on businesses you're

not not your average Joe that walks into

your CPA firm by doing that you're gonna

save them time time is money and it

makes your monthly retainer business

which that's what you need to do is go

after monthly retainer business it's

gonna be worth it for the business owner

because you're basically replacing an

employee you know their alternative to

hiring you at $1,500 a month might be to

take on an employee at $20 an hour and

it's an employee at $20 an hour at forty

hours a week that gets expensive quick

plus you've got unemployment insurance

you've got benefits Lord knows that you

know they get hurt they get crabby they

want more benefits they also add a ton

of value you know who employs are good

they have kids when you have kids and

they call in sick and whatever employees

are great you need great employees that

being said you can be a phenomenal

outsourced accountant for them Kay so

besides that you're gonna help them be

compliance and being compliant just make

sure that you get your taxes done you're

obeying the law and you mitigate that

risk you're basically helping them not

have the giant risk that they're gonna

lose a ton of money well just you know

Minnesota right now we're getting snow

like crazy and it is it's like the

fourth week in a row it was like

negative 50 last week negative forty

degrees with the wind chill negative 20

actual temp it's disgusting and now it

just keeps snowing and it only snows on

weekdays just makes a life hard right so

if you're thinking about getting in this

game if you want to be an accountant I'm

telling you here's what you need to do

focus on being an outsourced accountant

for businesses Kay and what you should

do is think about charging between five

hundred and fifteen hundred dollars a

month and in that here's what I think

you should include I think you should

include doing the personal so you

approach a business owner they're gonna

have their own family tax returns right

they probably got some kids a wife a

husband and offer doing their taxes

their corporate taxes doing tax planning

for them doing the bookkeeping on a

cloud-based system for them that'd be

another tip whatever you do you want to

just force them into your model like

create a system where you can be this

outsourced to come that means you use

QuickBooks Online or zero or some of

these cloud-based accounting programs so

just keep their books up-to-date go in

there every other week or every week and

just make sure things are reconciled

right and by doing that that's going to

inform you about their business you're

gonna be able to send them a quicken you

can automate it reports type of deal but

if you do their tax return the

bookkeeping and then you provide payroll

contact ADP paychecks there's zero I

really like this Zen do as an outsource

accounting program too but the bottom

line is is if you provide payroll you

can get paid on payroll you can get

payroll at cost as as a tax professional

you don't have to be a CPA they'll be

like we work with CPA firms if you talk

to them but I'm gonna go get clients and

that's gonna be the last part here if

you can provide them leads they're gonna

pay you a spife but more importantly you

can include it in this big monthly

retainer rate so tax returns bookkeeping

payroll doing it for them and then do

the tax returns at the end of the year

I'm telling you if you do that do the

math and if you charge $1,000 a month

which I'm telling you $12,000 a year for

a small business owner to have all their

bookkeeping and accounting done for them

that's the equivalent of having a staff

person just do the math on how far 12 K

goes you're gonna help them remember

your three value propositions or

mitigate taxes but you don't want to go

in there you might not be able to save

everybody taxes but that's a value

proposition the second thing is

you're gonna save them time and that

means making sure they don't need an

employee that's doing their bookkeeping

helping them you could even help them

with a R and a P I mean you can you

could really add value there but you

don't wanna gobble up all your time and

then the third thing is you keep them

compliant that's just you knowing all

the rules and all the annoying stuff if

you focus on that and you get a system

like that and you just work throughout

the year and that's the key meet with

your clients at least quarterly call

them on the phone set up conversations

with them and don't let it just keep up

with the bookkeeping if you keep up with

the bookkeeping their life's gonna be

easy and if you just do it once a week

at least that's not so bad you think

about 20 clients if it takes you you can

spend two and a half hours in each

client every other day type a deal and

it's gonna be great I'm telling you we

built this we had cash flows we reached

a million dollars at almost or we

reached a ton of revenue and monthly

recurring revenue so let's back up a

little bit you're gonna use those three

value propositions but here's where I

got to the point where I think this is

the best model for CPAs and accountants

to grow a business because I believe

that the strategies you do in business

should abide by Jim Collins Hedgehog

concept look up Jim Collins he wrote the

book good to great and he talks about

the Hedgehog concept and all he's saying

is you should not be a

jack-of-all-trades like a fox who's not

good at anything but ok at everything

and he's always kind of hungry whereas a

Hedgehog sits fat and happy and safe

because all he does is eat worms roll up

in a ball and keep to himself right you

want to find your simple Hedgehog

concept and the hedgehog concept is

basically saying it's kind of like

what's your 80/20 what's the service you

should provide in the type of business

the strategy the business strategy you

should execute on that's going to do

three things and it should satisfy these

three one it should drive your economic

engine 2 it's something you can be

passionate about and 3 it's something

you can be great at if you can be great

at it that means you're using your skill

set and that could be your experience it

could be your your team if you're good

at managing people and deploying other

people that have the team the skills

that's great I get passionate about

helping business owners pursue the

American dream man our mission here is

to as a feedback courage a marketing


and as a consulting business we want to

help maximize the efforts of

entrepreneurs right that's what it's all

about that's why I'm making this video

I'm not trying to shake you down for

money I want to help you actually pursue

the American Dream golden add value in

the economy because I think free market

enterprise and freedom and maximizing

the tools that I think God has given

each person it can be really seen in

entrepreneurship also it's hard there's

some risks but I tell you what there's

value in having the flexibility it was

snowing today you know what I was my own

boss I decided I'm not gonna drive into

our st. Paul office I'm gonna work out

of my home right I didn't have to call

anybody I know I need to maximize my

time right and I know exactly what I

need to do so I'm telling you why are

those three strategies how does my

outsourced accountant

system go into that well first of all

your economic engines should be monthly

retainer income just do monthly charging

tell them we're gonna get your credit

card or your checking comp check and go

it's better because credit cards go they

expire and you got to update them get

their checking account and just use a

payment merchant like QuickBooks there's

quite a few of a month I use a payment

merchant system to automatically build

monthly and just out of sight out of my

don't invoice and make the client click

on it and pay every month don't do that

set the expectation we just do this

monthly I'm gonna be your outsource

accountant I'm gonna handle this we're

gonna keep you compliant save money and

save you time so monthly billing

fulfills the will drives your economic

engine what can you be passionate about

I think helping small business owners

and entrepreneurs is super exciting if

you can impact their business you can

impact their families you can help them

have more peace about their day you save

them time they're not sweating and

making mistakes you can make them be

better fathers and mothers you can make

them better husbands and wives I'm

telling you you impact their life I'm

kind of Jesus boy and I think that

there's a mission field to help people

see that there's hope out there and I'm

telling you there's it's something I can

get passionate about and then if you

think about can you be best in it well

part of why I got out of the actual tax

and accounting game is because I hate

process I hate processes I hate sitting

down and doing it I like working with

people who are anal retentive process

people I surround myself with those

people but that's not my thing

I bet it's your thing if you're

listening to this and you

of doing a CPA or tax and accounting a

bookkeeping firm you're probably a

process person just known that in all

things and I'm gonna transition here a

little bit

your process-driven side is X your

execution side of Ming sure the process

is executed perfectly is a strength but

it is it is it requires you to yin and

the yang over to someone who is a

connector and more of a vision casting

connecting sales and when you think

sales sales is not what you think it is

sales is all about consulting finding

problems showing what you do as a

problem solver and finding out if you're

a good match and then providing them the

opportunity to say yes that's what sales

the sales is not pushing something sure

you advance an agenda well your agenda

is to solve the problem that you're in

the business of solving and finding

people to need that problem done so so

don't think that sales is bad but here's

what I'm getting it you are probably

driven my process and all the things I

just said right now about you being an

outsourced to come you can go do it I

know you can but here's your challenge

you cannot do that unless you have

clients right the great conundrum of

every small businesses how do you get

your first initial clients

I'm telling you here's the secret first

of all just start find the honey hole

that you want to work when they approach

small business owners but find an office

ok I'm not saying you have to go get a

monthly a monthly lease on an office

space but get an office right in the

center of where you think would be the

best honey hole and I'm telling you find

somebody that you could pay 50 bucks a

month to $100 a month if you could find

cheap rent just find an address with a


that's your first thing your second

thing is create your business name think

through your business name now we were

nuanced financial tax in the county I

named it nuanced financial tax in the

cutting you put those two words in there

so they're very clearly denoted to

Google and Bing on the search engines

what it was we did right you got to be

careful with that a little bit but watch

my videos about naming your business

right have it be unique have it not be

too clever but a little clever but you

need to establish the name that you're

going to put on your Facebook page your

Instagram page your Google my business

page your Twitter account your website

all of the different listings that

you're going to have because we're going


the digital footprint case so the first

thing is get you your office set up a

business name just get a basic logo if

you need help with this we can help you

go to 99designs i've got a link in the

description for 99designs we make a

little commission off of that but for

1500 bucks you can have a team of people

build you out almost everything you need

in terms of brand or work with a brand

strategist like ourselves at forward Co

which is my sister company that we work

with for better designs and I'm telling

you just get your design get your colors

get the the the fonts that you need and

then open a Google my business account

okay go verify that Google my business

account my business can be open at for slash business you get

that started and here's your goal you

are going to do what I call it it's just

the exponential growth program but it

starts with you just finding people that

you can add value to and then getting a

review for them once you've added value

okay so when you first start out in

business you're probably gonna have to

give it away for cheap or free right so

just know the the process that you need

to do is you go out and you execute you

got to find some people to add value to

and execute you're gonna find people and

execute sales and execution that's

entrepreneurship what like that's the

most basic thing that there is sales and

execution right well if you're not

confident in your sales in you don't

have your sales for the stick to 500 to

1500 bucks a month and just roll it all

into one don't get super complicated

with it and you're gonna have success

but go find some people and I'll get

into how you do that and as you find

them and as you execute follow up with

them and get Google reviews encourage

them to give you Google reviews if you

get Google reviews over time you do that

for three years and you have more

reviews than everybody else in your area

you can then do some Google Ads that

will use that and you will dominate your

local sector you start to have a ton of

success okay now I want to move on to

how to find clients here's how you find

clients you want to find people that do

not have or that have 1099 income that's

the key 1099 income so anybody that's in

a brokerage relationship so that's

insurance agents real estate agents

salespeople right if you have any of

that internet sales people people that

have affiliated income people that have


tube stars for crying out loud anybody

who earns 1099 income they have it

tonight a tax conundrum if you're gonna

do three things keep them compliant save

them time and then also help them

mitigate taxes people a 1099 income or

business income have all the cool right

off scale and here's what you want to

propose this sexy way that you're going

to do that first thing is you're going

to help them mitigate taxes how do you

help mitigate taxes you get in front of

these people

by getting a meeting okay if you get a

meeting for one hour you can share this

with them here's some interesting stuff

entrepreneurs get really excited about

should they be an S corp or a sole

proprietorship when it comes to taxes I

just call it LLC versus S corp right

that's why how this channel got started

they need help implementing that if they

implement an S corp which basically I

would say anybody who makes thirty to

fifty thousand dollars in net profit or

higher ought to look at an escort

because an S corp is gonna allow you to

split up your salary and your payroll

and I'm telling you watch mark Kohler

Koh L er take his advice he's got people

quite frankly taking about no less than

a third of their net profit as a salary

okay and now there's all sorts arguments

I'm sure I just made some of you your

brains pop but I'm telling you if you

can help your business owners mitigate

the taxes by using a reasonable salary

and then using a payroll system to pay

that so that they have this distribution

side and they go from paying a hundred

percent of their net profit paying

Social Security taxes on it to paying a

very small portion that's gonna be

helpful so now you think about that

that's very useful for people that are

making net profits you know two hundred

thousand and under really at that two

hundred thousand down to you know maybe

fifty thousand there's a spot there that

you can help the second place that

people can mitigate their taxes that's

really interesting is using SEP IRAs and

401 K so this can be for small business

owners this could be for single owner s

corpse your real estate agent that

doesn't have any employees or it could

be people with four or five people but

using an employer contribution through a

SEP IRA which is like a profit share

contribution or a 401k where you do

matches or you can do a profit share

contribution or in a solo 401k which

allows you to do up to twenty-five

percent of your net profits up to a

certain amount over into an employer

contribution or profit share

contribution to yourself and you have

the employee country

there's just lots of decision-making to

mitigate taxes case that's the second

thing you got bns carp manage the

tension between the payroll in the

salary you can add value there and then

you got to do the payroll you got that

taken care of you got to do the

accounting you got that taken care of

you got in 1129 you got that taken care

if that's your primary thing find out if

hey are you an S corp it second thing

are you doing tax planning when it comes

to your your retirement plans use

Vanguard comm I'm telling you that's the

cat's meow or you could find somebody

who does cheep index funds and provides

this that's great there's a bunch of

paperwork I know you can't be an advisor

you got to draw a line there and then

the third thing is is people with real

estate or property I'm telling you a

real estate or property is super

important now I've got an affiliate link

in the bottom for CSS I and they are

democratizing cost segregations right

but when people aren't in real estate

yet they probably ought to be if they

own a business and they're going to be

building wealth but if they have real

estate you have depreciation schedules

you've got you've just got more

complicated stuff you have multiple tax

returns probably because they probably

have an LLC that owns it so you have

different things going on you can add a

ton of value so what you're going to do

is you're gonna get meetings with people

you're gonna find out where they're at

how much income do they make you're

gonna find out if they've done any of

these things because now you have a game

plan and a strategy coach people to use

the S corp coach people to use the the

retirement plans coach people to use

real estate if they're not in real

estate perhaps they should get into it

because there's just tons of tax

planning opportunity maybe they have a

spouse that's not working and maybe

instead of taking a wage inside of the

business maybe they should just go and

be a real estate agent and now they can

carry over losses if they have losses in

an investment property right or maybe

they should start buying duplexes and

triplexes and renting them up maybe they

should buy apartment buildings with the

capital to building up who knows that's

how you can add value right meanwhile

you've got a wholesale so here's how you

can really sweeten the sweeten the

conversation once you get a meeting with

them you say I can help you save taxes

in those way those are my three ways

that I do my first value proposition

this and I do that by proactive planning

and by doing your bookkeeping I get to

know about this stuff and I can actually

be informed I'm not doing everything at

the end of it at the end of the year and

use this your traditional CPA during tax


can't breathe he doesn't know what's

going on in his clients books no no no

no no what he's doing is just trying to

cramp through as many tax returns as he

can his wife or her husband it's just

like where are you his kids are like do

you just live at the office where are

you mom or dad I don't know what's going

on they don't have time to do any real

analysis they're just going through

drake or or Thompson writers and fill it

out and making sure that it goes through

and then setting appointments dude you

just do the math if you do 500 tax

returns at 500 bucks a piece you're not

making any money you have to set two or

three appointments with each client or

one two three depending on what it is

just the administration to set

appointments with your clients it just

eats you up don't go that way get 20

clients that you do this outsource

accounting for but what you can provide

them is you can say I'm going to be able

to actually give you analysis because

I'm not doing a million different tax

returns not only that when it comes to

that I'm gonna save you time I'm gonna

serve as your outsource accountant

they're me like well that's good but I'm

not thinking of buying an accountant

here's where you can really say here's

why I'm worth 500 to 1500 bucks a month

I'm gonna reduce what's called your

coordination fatigue okay coordination

fatigue a business owner has to

coordinate their tax person with their

payroll system with their employees with

their bookkeeping and their taxes and

their payroll and their bookkeeping in

their taxes and their payroll in their

bookkeeping just meeting with their CPA

requires four emails back and forth

right if they're doing manual book books

where they have like QuickBooks desktop

you know you should look for people that

aren't that's s corpse yet people that

own property and haven't done a cost

segregation yet people who have and then

people who have standalone solutions or

well I pay 80 PE 300 bucks a month and

paychecks or whatever it is then you go

to tax guy and he's good and then we do

the bookkeeping right there you can be

like how would you like to never have to

order to organize those three together

I'll just we just do it all in one spot

so by doing it all on one spot you have

no messing around and we become fully

informed because we have the bookkeeping

I can do the tax planning I can do the

tax return better I can do the payroll

better because I have the payroll

reports there's no Lutz get the payroll

reports from ATP you

have them all right and because you're

doing payroll you're an integral part of

their business you can just make them

smile and be happy as long as you pick

up your phone guys okay so you

understand your three value propositions

I just gave you some nuggets of why you

can be spicy and exciting to a business

owner you can be very valuable if you

just frame it up that way guys now how

do you actually get meetings here's the

easiest thing you can do the first thing

you do is hit up your BNI groups Kate

you don't have to join Abby and I BNI is

good only if they have like a digital

mindset and that in that digital mindset

they're giving backlinks I'm gonna have

a whole other video on this if they're

helping each other on each other's blogs

and your back linking to each other you

can help each other

rank an SEO that's beautiful but

otherwise whatever there's value to it

I've been in it I don't like meaning

every week but go to Abby and I you can

go twice for free they're gonna try

really hard to get you to join but all

you're trying to do there is make a

connection with each person and get a

one-on-one meeting with everybody that

you possibly can Kate so go to every B

and I check out every BNI in your area

go to them they're established they're

there get the business cards of the

people make connections find you know

make a personal connection with each one

of them and then don't be scared of like

go on building something hey we're a new

outsourced accounting firm we go through

this coaching system with feedback

wrench we know what's going on and we

know how to do this I'm telling you we

add a ton of value guys sit down and

just show you what we do absolutely then

you should work meetings where you have

a connection meeting and all you're

doing there is trying to get to know

them find out do they make money find

out do they have problems portray that

you help them say conveyor your a little

bit of what you do and then out of that

first initial one hour Connect meeting

which could be at their office it could

be a coffee out of that you wanna land

an analysis k and the analysis is really

training you're gonna do two things in

this analysis get their own tax returns

hey just give me your tax returns I'm

gonna look over them and see if I if

there's any low-hanging fruit for tax

planning okay let me see your tax

returns see if there's any low-hanging

fruit for tax planning if there is boy

we might be able to save you a ton of

taxes then the other thing maybe get

your current bookkeeping let me take a

look at that because you want to find

out two things one is there opportunity

for you help them save money and two you

want to find out do they

have a mess that you can solve right is

there bookkeeping messy sloppy and not

done right and it's just like if they

get audited boy they're gonna be in

trouble or are they wasting a ton of

time and you just look at any like oh

man I can do this I'm good at

bookkeeping I'm gonna be able to do this

really easy for you so you're trying to

find out the other thing is you need to

figure out the scope there's a size of

business I think that you should focus

on on all business I always frame up a

chart right and it's kind of a t-chart

but four quadrants and I'm on the X and

y axis you've got profitable and non

profitable complex and simple here's the

bottom line I believe that the the best

money can be made in my opinion for

small businesses in the simple types of

businesses if you want to be a full CPA

firm and go get CPA odd you know have

the the CPA Association whatever the

heck they're called I don't even deal

with them we didn't we never even tried

to mess with them because it there's no

reason I want to we wanted to be doing

the big audits and stuff why would you

want to do that that's complex work

there's money in it if you're charged in

big companies a hundred thousand dollars

to do it but then you have so much

insurance and staff and it's just brutal

stay simple and so if you move on

simplicity and you up by executing on

your economic what drives you economic

engine you're gonna have success okay so

if you're thinking about starting to

firm that's my recommendation don't be a

CPA from being outsourced accounting

firm go out prospect go to the BNI

meetings go to the Chamber events and

then if that doesn't work just start

calling a sector pick construction guys

okay construction guys hate screwing

around with this stuff pic real estate

agents they can be really easy to find

the successful real estate agents find

out if they have an S corp see if

they've been doing a solo 401k you could

probably go in there you find a real

estate agent making 150 K and he hasn't

been an S corp you're gonna save them 10

grand right that's a good deal you think

how would you like to save a bunch in

taxes right or they they don't know that

and then they they're not doing their

bookkeeping and stuff they're

notoriously they need an admin like you

write or find businesses that just have

opportunity like that and just call them

hey can I introduce myself guy buy you a

coffee I'm an outsource accountants out

here with new taxes bookkeeping payroll

and accounting

to just learn about your business and

introduce stuff you need to ask for

appointments ten times a day okay you

want to get a goal of having one two

three appointments every single day when

you're starting up and go play offense

it's all about sales for the first year