hello everybody and welcome to this
week's live Q&A I'm here with Anita from
rhubarb paper hello Anita yay and
Anita's gonna be talking to us today
about kind of just behind the scenes
answering some questions about what it's
like to actually have a greeting card
company so we've talked a lot about you
know different stationery different
lettering different calligraphy for
stationery but never specifically about
greeting cards and how to have a
business around that specifically so
that's gonna be a good conversation as
we are getting going here tell us where
you're from say hello in the comments so
we can say hi back and feel free to
throw comments and questions and stuff
in here as Anita and I go sometimes we
do more lesson style on here but today
will be just kind of more of a
conversation and asking questions and
stuff back and forth so as we go you're
welcome to submit questions and we can
pop them up on the screen and stuff like
that
but before we get started I think the
most important thing to cover is Anita
can you tell us who you are what you do
where you're from that kind of stuff
sure so my name is Anita Bo's Anson and
I live on the East Coast in Canada and I
own and operate
rhubarb paper company which is basically
a stationery and gift line and how long
have you been doing that I think I
started rhubarb it'll be five years this
fall nice so you have to make five years
and so what I mean we'll get into this
when we start you know going over some
of the questions that people submitted
ahead of time but it was it always this
company that we see now like is that how
it started or did it kind of snowball
from anything else at the beginning well
I'm a self-taught graphic designer and
was doing freelance for a number of
years and the three years prior to
starting rhubarb I was really focusing
on freelance so I was designing book
covers and band posters and invitations
lots of different things and realized
that I really don't like doing freelance
work I don't like doing Commission work
it's really stressful to have some
client come back and say they don't like
something or to have put so much energy
and effort into something and then it
not
what they wanted so I kind of knew that
I needed to make a change and I've
always loved stationery since I was
little stickers smelly stickers I had a
collection of stickers I had pencils
greeting heard saved all my Valentines
so it seemed like I've always loved
greeting cards so it seemed like the one
of the things that I would most like to
do moving forward with graphic design
was to design greeting cards so that was
the first step and so you had your you
were doing client work as at the same
time too as you started this and then
you at one point just kind of said screw
it I'm going all-in or did you just quit
one and start the other I design a few
cards first and remember I still have a
photo somewhere of like the first three
cards that I designed and had printed
just as samples to see you know are they
going to look okay is this what I want
to be doing and I think I was still kind
of working on some client projects at
the time that I started doing that but I
think I not the thrill that I thought of
designing them but kind of seeing the
finished product and loving stationery
so much I knew that that was the stuff I
wanted to take so not long after that I
basically just stopped taking any sort
of commissioned work at all nice and so
apart from your like your freelance work
did you ever have any education in
business or anything like that or you're
all self-taught with how to start and
run a business like this I took a
semester of business in college and
realized that that was at the time not
what I thought I wanted to do but also
business courses in college are just not
I mean I think things have changed so
much and they're just not keeping up to
date and I didn't think at all that that
was what I was going to be doing so it's
kind of surprising but I have my own
business in a way but I would say yeah I
really didn't have any sort of
experience because that what you
actually bring to the table and what you
learn as a business person is so much
different than what they teach you and
like community college or even like any
sort of university like course yeah
well and I think that like it's
encouraging to hear that for people that
you know you rather than having the
business and finding the passion you had
the
and made the business you know like he
it's all figure out a bull as in course
I Marie Forleo if you fall there I think
it should be the opposite I think you
should have the passion first yeah
because business stuff you can learn so
easily you just kind of learn as you go
and that passion isn't always going to
be there and I don't think your business
will be successful yeah if you don't
have that passion yeah yeah exactly so
we had some questions submitted
beforehand and actually some really good
questions there was one person in
particular Ashley Ashley if you're
listening thank you for submitting so
many great questions it's kind of gonna
lead our class so I am just gonna pop
some of them up on the screen and we can
just kind of get into them and go from
there and again anybody anybody watching
if you have questions as we go just put
them in the comments and I'll be able to
see them here so the first question was
and I think this is a good place to
start is how and where were you selling
your cards before you set up your
website like how what was the very first
place you started actually making money
with them besides family and friends
we're just being very nice Etsy I think
it's still the kind of go-to place
although I've been on at sea for a very
long time I think since about 2006 7 I
think that's I started in 2007 so I
think I was there from the beginning as
a buyer and like just selling probably
vintage stuff or something like that and
I still think to get an idea of if your
product is going to be sellable at seize
a really great place to start and then
I've only done a couple of markets
actually I find them very stressful I'm
pretty introverted in general I love
people but I don't necessarily love
interacting with a lot of people at once
so I've done a couple of markets but
felt like it just really wasn't for me
so yeah that's he I think was the the
very first place where I felt like hey
this like this could be something larger
and are you still on it see I'm still on
up to you yeah so do you feel like Etsy
is a great place for people still to
start like I I hear so many conflicting
things and I've had
that's the expert on here talking about
this about you know some people think
that Etsy is too cheap and it's not
you're not valuing your work and stuff
like that but I think it's an
interesting topic especially as it
relates to greeting cards because it's
also a good way to learn like you said
if your products gonna sell or also you
go on and kind of see how you should be
pricing your work
so it's interesting but you do you still
think that it's the right place for
people to start like it or a good a good
kind of kicking off point I do i impart
partly that's because there really isn't
anywhere else that has the sort of
notoriety that Etsy has there are
websites that have popped up that kind
of tried to emulate Etsy but I still
think that Etsy has the most customers
there are some cheaper things on Etsy
and you do have to be careful of like
copycats or things like that but I can't
think of any other place where if you
want want to get your product to a large
number of people that are going to be
specifically looking for your type of
product then yeah I definitely think
that's a Stila a good place to start and
like I sort of wonder too if it's really
helpful to have that online presence
before you try and get it into retailers
and like actual and stores so yeah I
think I think it's he's a good spot and
actually for anybody listening who
hasn't watched if you go back to the
happy ever crafter TV which is where all
these live videos go afterwards there
was an interview with Jamie um I
remember her last name but she did a
whole we did a whole interview about
Etsy and kind of dispelling all of those
myths that you shouldn't be on it see
and why it could be helpful and who it's
helpful for so that's a good one if
anybody's been wanting to check out more
about Etsy okay so you started on Etsy
and then actually the next question kind
of carries right along how did you first
get retailers to carry your products
when you start it out so when how did
you get them into actual physical stores
and stuff actually tell us how many
stores you're in and and that kind of
thing right now um I think I'm in like
280 plus something like that getting
close to 300 now and it's all around the
world right it's not just north of me
yeah yeah
it's Australia and England and yeah a
few other countries yeah actually I
think um I first saw one of your cards
when I was at a conference in Idaho I
think I told you that one when I see
that I bought my friend a card there and
then I realized that you're from Canada
and I was like oh we need to be in touch
yeah it's pretty cool I never get old of
those stories of like hey I saw your
card here or like I saw it on this
Instagram and this like you know far-off
place or whatever I think it's still
really really cool yeah I mean this is a
hard question for me because I did reach
out to a couple of like dreams stories
at the beginning before I knew anything
about anything
and I was a loss a reach oh you mean
like you just emailed them right now
yeah and hate it I still hated doing
that it's just not my personality at all
and I was really lucky that I think I
had Instagram at a time when it was
still really beneficial to businesses
not that it's not now
but I feel like it's just so much harder
to get a footing on Instagram now that
there were a lot of stores that reached
out to me I've honestly I think only
reached out to about five stores and
that was probably in the first six
months of starting rhubarb since then I
have not reached out to a single store
they all generally contact me which is
great I'm sure there will come a point
where I'll have to cold email again but
my suggestion would be if reaching out
it would definitely be an email and pick
the stores that you would really love to
be in and that you think would be a good
fit because not every store what would
be a good fit for your product so I
think that's part of the part of the
effort has to be doing your research and
finding stores that will carry what
would most likely carry your product
otherwise if you're reaching out to a
store that it's not their style you're
probably gonna get a rejection so I
think that's important to keep in mind
too when reaching out to stores so when
you reach out what kind of information
would you give them like you send them
some pictures of your cards
do you ever send actual samples and
stuff like that how does all of that
work like what would you actually say in
that email to help people out I think in
the emails I didn't send samples I think
at the time I didn't really know that
was even a thing so I think I attached
some photos and a line sheet where they
could just send me the skews and place
an order but as far as what I said I
mean it's really important to be
yourself but also kind of let them know
what why that their story is so
appealing to you what it is that you
like so much about that store do your
research on the store and maybe mention
a few things within the email like
you're basically selling yourself and
your products in one email and I think
it is really important to sell yourself
not to be fake to be who you are but you
I find like my favorite retailers and
the ones that order the most from me
there's some sort of connection we have
like a personal relationship so when
we're emailing each other back and forth
about reorders or just any emails at all
there is like how are you like how was
that you know event that you went to or
how are you feeling if they weren't
feeling well or that sort of thing so I
think that's really important kind of
get to know the retailers behind the
stores that you're pitching to and be
personalised in your email it's not just
like a mass email the same email that
you send to everybody so I think that's
really important
I mean I think that applies to every
aspect of business not just trying to
get ready to buy your stuff but just
trying to make any kind of connection
you don't want to just email somebody
and be like hi can you do this I mean
you know yeah exactly
I don't yeah exactly exactly
so if we back up a little bit say okay
so what I imagine is say I wanted to i
made a line of greeting cards that's as
far as I've gotten I've never sold it
I've never done anything but I know I
want to get it into this one store I
think where people get hung up and get
overwhelmed is understanding how that
even works like how does it work if my
card is in that store how do I get paid
do they buy it from me right away and
then they make their money like I think
it's just for somebody who has zero
retail background or a zero
understanding of that how does it work
so can you just give us like layman's
terms of how it actually works and what
the options are when you
have your cards in the store yeah I mean
I think the first thing is to know how
much it costs you to make a card then
you will double that price for wholesale
and then and how much it costs to make a
card including how much you want to pay
yourself basically then you double that
cost for wholesale and then you double
it again for for retail so for me my
cards are 250 wholesale and a retailer
would sell them for $5 that would be the
suggested retail price they might raise
the price a little more because you have
to pay shipping and things like that so
that's important to know and then there
are two types of stores you could have a
store that operates on consignment which
I have a couple of stores when I started
I was but I still operate on consignment
because they've been so good to me and
they're great to work with I don't love
consignment I feel if your product is
good enough then a store should be
willing to pay outright for it
assignment mean basically you give them
the product up front and they pay you
when it sells so there's also a risk
involved if a store closes down it could
keep your stock and it could be gosh
knows where you know so there are a lot
of things to consider if you're gonna do
consignment with a store but they do pay
you the the wholesale price when the
item sells so usually every month
they'll send you your your sales you'd
create an invoice for them and send it
to them and they would pay you that's it
for me anyway so so a story or you
approach a store they approach you and
say I want your cards consignment in my
store they would say ok I'll take 10 of
them right as an example I'll take 10 of
them they don't pay you anything upfront
you just give them the product and then
when it sells at the end of the month or
however you work out your deal you send
them an invoice and they pay you for
however many sold yes yes exactly
yeah yeah it's it's um I have a couple
of places like I said that are really
great to deal with and there's they're
never late paying and everything runs
really smoothly but I think for most
people it wouldn't be the preferred it's
not guaranteed income so what you want
is to know hey like these cards sold
they're not going to be sent back to me
or you know and it and if they don't
sell in that store then the the
stores eating the cost right so that's
out of my hands does that sometimes
start and does it do your agreements
sometimes start on consignment and then
change over after once they know if
they're gonna sell like is that
something that people want to do
sometimes sometimes they can I haven't
had that happen I'm not saying because
they but because mostly the stores that
I've worked with on consignment that's
just how they operate like okay I'm all
the products there are consignment so I
haven't really moved from consignment to
like I'm just purchasing outright for me
um but yeah I would say if you have a
preference it is obviously for stores to
just you know purchase your product and
sell them and not have to do deal with
the headache of consignment it can be a
headache
so the the opposite of consignment would
be just considered like wholesaling is
the term for it okay yeah and so
wholesaling would be they buy it from
you upfront at your 50% cost so you said
if your art is 250 they would buy up 8%
of that and buy them in and however
whatever quantity they want while
there's terms so it depends on the
industry but in greeting cards usually
they buy them by sixes okay so each card
design they would have to buy six of so
you have terms either on your website
you could have terms on your line sheets
you can email terms or just even have a
website just a simple page setup that
just lists your terms so they kind of
know that they have a minimum purchase
amount a minimum reorder amount as far
as dollar amount and then they have to
purchase by the quantity so four cards
at six and for my other products it's
four so they'd have to purchase at least
four pencil sets at least four enamel
pins of the same design so a second
design they'd have to purchase four of
that design as well it just keeps things
simple and I think it also encourages
buyers to purchase more you can have a
lower minimum opening order which I kind
of do you because there are so many
micro boutiques now that don't have a
lot of space on the floor so they just
can't purchase so many of one item but
most a lot of people have
$100 minimum order some people have like
$400 minimum order and then you'd have a
reorder amount of it could be 7 like a
like a lesser number so $75 if your
initial order amount is you know 200 or
$300 then you'd probably have like $150
reorder amount so there's lots of little
things like that that come along with
wholesaling that can also be not a
headache but I guess once you're
operating your business for a little
while it just becomes like second nature
and so are these all things that you
kind of just learned as you went like
did you make mistakes with these things
at the beginning or did you have a
resource that that kind of taught you
the basics of what you needed to know
Google resource yeah you become friends
with like fellow stationery people and
you kind of get to know the good eggs
from the bad eggs because there's first
people like that everywhere and you get
to know the people that you can ask hey
like what how should this work or you
know how should I be doing this but
other than that it's it's just Google I
did a lot of research yeah okay so if we
were to recap those steps for somebody
who has just made a card wants to get it
into a store it would be you know first
of all determine your cost like figure
out why what it costs you to make it how
much you want to make and then what did
what was the calculation you said double
that for wholesale yes and triple it for
cui tail yes so say your card is a
dollar right which is not enough let's
be honest please charge more than that
shirt is a dollar if you're gonna get it
into a store for wholesale they would
pay two dollars for it right and when
they put it in the store they'll charge
three dollars for it but they may charge
four dollars for it in the store yeah so
they well they would want to double what
they paid for it
right yeah yes okay math not my strong
suit
yeah okay so that's the basic so I think
it's just yeah like um the the wholesale
calculation is what throws people off
like how much should the store actually
be paying for it yeah look at the market
standard I mean you're not
no one's paying less generally than five
dollars for a greeting card so you have
to kind of look at those things as well
like so right now a lot of stationary
friends are raising their prices because
the cost of paper has gone up shipping
costs have gone up as well so it seems
to be across the industry everyone's
raising their prices right now I've yet
to do that but it's on my list of things
to do because you just want to keep up
with a state like the standards so it's
the same when you're looking to price
any product you kind of have to see like
you you obviously want to get it make
enough to recoup your time and supplies
but you also have to go by what the the
standard in the industry is - right yeah
and I guess I mean Etsy is a good place
to see those standards - but also just
even looking in small boutique shops the
kind of shops that you want to be in
just yakking up what similar things are
going for it-- or your favorite greeting
card designers website check that out
and see what they're charging retail for
our card and you'd automatically know
that that store is paying half of that
right so then you kind of can get an
idea of what the standard it is is as
well for the wholesale cost so yeah okay
okay I'm going to go back into our
questions here so how did you build your
followers and your customer base when
you first started out so I know you said
you were on Etsy but you know quite a
few followers on Instagram too so it's
not just been steadily growing over
however many years or did you have kind
of tactics and stuff to grow that at the
beginning I think at first we just posed
it whatever and I kind of grew a falling
I think of local folks people that I
didn't know but that had heard maybe of
my cards or just back in the day when
you would see local people's instagrams
right popping up then you would just
follow them for fun or whatever so I
think it initially grew like that
and then I went through this period of
really trying to build my followers to
the point where it was giving me anxiety
cuz I was stressing so much about like
trying to have the perfect looking
Instagram and the right hashtags
all of that sort of stuff so I think I
built quite a few followers then but I
seem to go through these waves of really
putting a lot of effort into social
media and then realizing how unhappy
that's making me and backing away a bit
as well right now I'm on a backing away
stretch so I don't really post to
Instagram that much but yeah I
definitely think that if that is and it
is important so I do understand that but
if that's the way that you're planning
to build a following or like get
customers or source to notice you then
you definitely have to pay attention to
how your feed looks and what hashtags
you're you're using but a really good
strategy for greeting cards or for any
sort of gifting thing that would be in a
boutique is to like the shops that you
want to get in comment on some of their
photos and just kind of be engaged with
them and I I definitely I think had a
lot of shops reach out to me because I
did that I implemented those strategies
and those were probably the most
beneficial to me as far as getting in
shops and the thing is with shops is
that once they are following you on
Instagram or once they have your
products in their store then you get
more followers just because of that so
other people will notice you maybe post
it on their feet and that they like
greeting cards will see like a new bar
Paper Co who's that and click on that
and come and follow you
just like little subtle things that you
can do daily I would go on these spurts
where I would just pick like 15 minutes
of my day and go through and like follow
shops that I felt would be a good fit
for rhubarb like a few of their photos
comment on at least one of their photos
and usually I would say within a few
days I would have at least one of those
stores contacting me for wholesale
information or like emailing me with an
order so yeah and I mean I think in that
instance like if if you were to follow
me and be commenting and I saw your
handle it said paper Co on it like I
know that it's a relevant thing so maybe
the people to keep in mind to when
they're naming their business or when
they're making their Instagram handle
for example make it something that you
know it's not just like Sarah
24
it's like yeah your actual company name
and making it obvious that it's a paper
company right and I think another really
good tip --it I did it just because I
don't like my face posture to anywhere
but I did my my personal like avatar my
my image is of greeting cards on
Instagram so I didn't use a personal
photo I'm not sure if that has been
helpful or not but a lot of times when
people have personal photos I don't know
like who they are or what their brand is
even by like if their handle doesn't
seem to kind of match you know
stationery or whatever then I'm not
really gonna know unless I go click on
it so I think having your product in
some way shape or form as your photo
that probably makes somewhat of a
difference as well for sure yeah or even
just a logo that you use on everything
that you're recognizable throughout
everything um so I think the other part
of this question that is kind of like an
undertone here it's like how did you
build a loyal following base so I know
that I and I mean I don't know how many
people actually looked at your cards
before this this call but like a lot of
them look very similar and I it's just
like the funny green like you have a
tile of them and it's kind of
recognizable now that I've seen one
rhubarb paper company card and I bought
it now I see them everywhere and oh my
god I know that's your girl yeah so how
is that was that like a conscious thing
that you did right off the bat or did
you kind of grow that and discover which
ones were popular and then carry that on
and that did that turn into a loyal
customer base like how did how did that
whole psyche gonna work I think about it
well when I first started designing
cards they were all hand Illustrated so
every single card that I had was hand
Illustrated and I guess I just had
looked around at the in thought like
that's what people want so I'm just
gonna try to make my own illustrated
cards so I knew I was gonna do
stationery I just really didn't know
what route that was gonna you know what
weirdo is going to go down to get there
and I kind of realized after even though
they were kind of becoming successful in
Nova Scotia I kind of realized that he
just weren't me like I wasn't really
being myself in designing though
I was kind of doing what I thought
people would want and then I remember my
first text-based card that was kind of
searching sarcastic and funny it just
felt more like me like my personality my
vibe so I did a few of those and they
became extremely popular and that's
really when rubrub started to grow was
by really just being like authentic and
who I am is they're trying to do what I
felt like you know would sell and then
yeah that just grew and grew and grew
although I don't know about them being
so much more so much noticeable or you
can pick them out anymore because it
seems like there are a lot more people
doing tech space now but at the time
there really weren't any lines that were
just text-based mm-hmm
so I think you know on one hand that
helped me kind of stick out and and grow
a following because they were a little
more original at that time but I think
the big the big reason that I was able
to grow a larger following and on
Instagram although it's not that big
like it's not even 9,000 people so I
know so I know someone that's like a
friend of mine who was like thirty five
thousand followers and it just seems
like crazy to me but I think the biggest
takeaway for me has been sharing parts
of your life and your story is what
people connect to and I would say that's
the number one way in which I've grown a
loyal following I'm sure there are lots
of people that follow me that have never
purchased a card for me but I also know
that there are a lot of people that do
continuously purchase from me over and
over again and are super supportive on
Instagram so share you know share your
day to day life share struggles that you
have I suffer from anxiety and
depression I was really open about that
and that I mean it did grow me a
following that wasn't the purpose or the
reason for that but I do feel like
whenever you're authentic and being your
true self and sharing personal details
people can connect to that and then they
feel like a bond like a friendship
whew and I've met a lot of wonderful
people through Instagram because of
sharing about like mental health or
sharing about just like frustrations in
life or frustrations in business yeah I
definitely think that's the number one
way that you can grow a following or
connect to people is to share real parts
of your life and it's so much easier now
on Instagram too with stories because
before it was like you only had the
caption to do that and so sometimes and
I mean sharing photos that were
unrelated to your product it was like
kind of frowned upon but now you can do
that in the stories and it's so much
better like I feel like God so many of
these interviews where this topic comes
up of just being authentic and and and I
love that you said it as it related to
your cards too like as soon as you
started being authentic and doing what
you actually wanted to do is when they
actually took off and people connected
to them it's like this intangible you
can't endpoint exactly why but people
can just feel it and and I like I mean I
can tell like I can see your personality
in the cards even though it's just text
like it's right yeah and yeah I think
that's a big takeaway piece of advice
for anybody no matter what your product
is is that there are actually a lot of
businesses that I've seen and they've
had really wonderful products and I
think like what is it why isn't this
company taking off or why isn't this
product taking off and generally I feel
some sort of disconnect it's being like
the product and the person behind the
product or I feel like they're not
sharing enough of who they personally
are to keep me like to make me invested
I want to feel invested in like a
company in a product I want to know like
so if I'm supporting you what is this
helping you do in your life like for me
I'm very honest and that you know
rhubarb has made my life much easier in
that this is how my kids how I pay for
my kids to go to like Taekwondo lessons
or for us to go unlike mini family
vacations or go do that sort of stuff it
would not be possible if it wasn't for
rhubarb and so I'm super grateful and
appreciative to the people that even by
like a single card for me and I think if
you frame it that way it's
you're not out to make like I think so
many people are entrepreneurial and
they're really in it to make money and
to have their businesses be like this
huge successful thing but I want to
support the people it's like really
affecting their day-to-day life and it's
something that they love to do not just
a great idea that they had that they
thought but you know make them a lot of
money because there's an enough there's
like there's no authenticity in that
like you should always be doing stuff
that you love and you make that a
business and I think the whole like
support local and support small business
thing it just it like lends itself well
to this kind of business to like if I
was trying to sell I don't know
electronics or something it wouldn't be
the same thing but you're trying to sell
a greeting card that like has literally
been in your hands and you're set like
all business and those are the kind of
shops that you want to get into so if
you aren't living that and if you aren't
actually like actively promoting that as
something you believe and then you will
feel that disconnect you your cards
being in that store would be like why
why are her cards in here they should
just be in hallmark or like you know say
in an airport or something it's not the
same so yeah sure an interesting point
it's like a total sidebar of what we're
talking about but I think it like I said
it comes up in so many of these
conversations definitely and I'm the
only person I'm I have no employees I've
had like a couple of people that have
done little odd things for me but I'm
the one who is here stuffing envelopes
with cards every single day so I think
that saint-like not that there's
anything wrong with hiring people of
course I'd love to get to that point
where I could you know pay someone to
work for me but right now I'm at a
really comfortable level and it is
literally me that is like designing the
products and putting them in the
envelope and putting them in the boxes
and trudging over to the post office in
the snow and the people who are buying
your cards want to know that so that's
how you build that right yeah I think
when it comes to social media you should
you should post a product photo you
should post a few product photos in a
row but then I feel like every third or
fourth photo should either be like a
personal photo or at least the caption
the copy should be personal of some
something real yeah yes you need to be
sharing words so if you're just not like
here's a product here's a product here's
a product buy
stuff right like no one no one feels a
connection to that so 100% agree yeah
okay so let's get back to some like
actual greeting card based questions we
have oh this is a good one actually when
we talk about shipping shipping is
always a big conversation so any tips on
lowering shipping costs for a small
business since general customer prices
are based off expectations like Amazon
and stuff like that or hallmark in this
instance right so do you build do you
build shipping into your price when you
are let's say on at sea for example I
don't I don't - shipping it's my price I
build the supplies to ship into my
shipping costs but I never build and
never put the the cost of shipping into
my price at all I think that that is I
don't know then when you raise your
prices and then I don't know it just
gets really difficult to do it that way
but yeah so definitely supply so like my
my my mailers my boxes things like that
are all figured into the the shipping
costs I mean I use Canada Post to ship
everything I don't use FedEx or UPS or
anything like that and they have raised
their prices but so far they still seem
the least expensive to me I really
really don't have very many tips and
tricks when it comes to shipping I just
you know if you're in a larger city you
might have better options I'm in a small
town so Canada Post is pretty much the
way that I have to do things right now
one trick though is that if you send
your cards I'll show you an order for
example so there's a card in here just
one single card if you ship them in flat
mailers like this and they fit through
the slot then this can just go as
regular postage you don't have to pay
like the small pocket fee which is how
that you generally want products to be
shipped but if you're shipping paper
then you can get away with sending them
in little envelopes like this and then
you're just paid then you're just
charged like the stamp or whatever
versus having to pay like small packet
or light packet that's pretty much the
only tip
for shipping is concerned that I have
used consistently because you pay way
less for shipping that way for things
like greeting cards but as far as excuse
me pins are like other products there
aren't really any tricks or tips unless
you can find a really good company to
work with so yeah yeah so how much okay
I guess it's also great that it's paper
because it's a lot lighter yeah most
things that's right because it shipping
just goes up exponentially when it's
like a little bit heavier not in those
flat mailers that you were saying yeah
so what's the average just to lay it all
out what's the average cost of your card
and how do you structure shipping on
Etsy so the cost of my card on Etsy I
think is it's been so long since I've
looked but I think it's like 450 u.s.
the car card on Etsy one of my cards and
then shipping is I think it's like two a
little over two dollars and then with
the exchange rate that covers the cost
of the shipping and the mailer so that's
another thing to kind of keep in mind is
the exchange I have my shop set in USD
because the majority of my Etsy
customers are in the States
mm-hmm so I of times had Canadians ask
oh why are the prices like this well
it's because the majority of my customer
customers are in the US but yeah it's
like a little over $2 u.s. and then the
exchange means that that covers the
shipping cost for probably I would say
three cards something like that is the
range and then the cost of my mailer as
well so then you just have to kind of
work in tears from there once you once
you're into like four or five six cards
it does go up obviously a little bit but
I wouldn't say it's too much and you
ship internationally like all around the
world or I do yeah I think I'm quite
pricey so shipping to Shipping changes
based on where people are or that's so
that you just just mentioned would be
for North America probably that would be
for North America well yeah so there
would be Canada there would be North
America and then they would be
international those are the really the
three rates that there would be
gotcha yeah all right okay so let's keep
going here we have at what point and I
know you mentioned that you don't like
doing crafts shows so this is maybe not
something that you know much about or
would have an opinion on but at what
point would you recommend smaller
startup stationery companies do big
shows like NSS which is national
stationery show that right um and if you
do suggest that people do that how do
you suggest they prepare for scaling up
like that so this is a I think if you're
in the stationery industry you dream of
doing NSS I definitely did when I
started I really wanted to go to New
York and pitch my line to all of these
buyers and I thought it would be
fantastic and now I am not so into the
whole idea of doing NSS I think that
you're going to find that with the way
the industry works now more buyers are
just coming to you from social media or
emailing you or what have you I think
that the the cost of NSS I don't know if
you'd make that back it's not a very
popular opinion there are a lot of
people that are really diehard about NSS
and think it's really important to go
and I see the social aspect of it you
are meeting buyers for stores you're
building a connection with them that way
you're meeting fellow stationery
designers it's great I'm sure it's
really beautiful I'd love to walk the
show one day that would be really fun
but I do not think that NSS is a
make-or-break for a business and I've
talked to many really big lines that are
quite famous and popular that have said
that they will not do NSS again or that
they've done NSS for the past three
years and it's gone downhill every year
so I wouldn't really want to dissuade
someone completely from doing it because
if it's their dream and something they
really want to do and they they think
that it would be beneficial then that I
say do it but I don't think that you
really have to do an assassin
there are lots of other ways a big thing
that people do during around NSS time is
they kind of send like a stationary show
in a box they send like a mailer or they
send samples and they make them really
pretty and beautiful and they send them
to like their dream stores and that's a
really great way to like participate but
not necessarily have to pay ten to
twenty thousand dollars to do NSS it's
that was crazy
that's what it costs yeah it'll so crazy
yeah it's insane
and I know people that have just started
their business and only been doing it
for six months have not even made a
profit and they're going off and doing
an SS and I just no no thank you
yeah well and I mean even just your
typical craft show some of those can get
expensive and just doing one kind of
shows you how much the benefit is not
that it's the same as doing an SS
because normally if you book something
it's a much bigger order but um yeah
yeah I mean I don't know well I would
say four markets just just be choosy and
the same thing with shows there are
other ways to do retail shows like that
you there's an Atlanta Mart there's one
in Las Vegas there are other less
expensive ones but I would just say do a
lot of research and be really choosy
about even like markets locally just
talk to fellow you know stationery
designers or anyone that sells a product
that did it the previous year maybe you
can look at a list if you can find it
online of people that did a mark of the
year before and ask how well they did
because there are some markets that are
beneficial and worth it and some shows
that are beneficial and worth it and
others that are not so it's important to
do your research yeah and I mean like
you said that goes for anybody who sells
a product like it's it's not always
beneficial okay um how about printing we
talked about shipping now about printing
so someone asked they'd be curious to
know about which printers to use which
inks to use and stuff like that
so I mean how do you go about printing
do you print your own or do you
outsource that
so I outsource printing I have from well
no I did print a little bit at first and
then grew to need to outsource so I
outsource I do digital and offset so
some of my designs the ones that are the
most popular those are printed off set
the ones that aren't as popular or
printed digital I would I just use a
local print shop in Dartmouth which is
about 45 minutes from here and so that's
what I would suggest anyone that's going
to outsource printing just really get
samples from every single place that you
have in your area and and whatever's the
best quality and the best price
obviously that's really important as
well yeah so it's um I know lots of
stationery designers do letterpress
printing or you know different types of
printing methods but it just seems like
so much effort I kind of contemplated
doing letterpress for a while but you
have to like figure out how to use a
letterpress on I was thinking that might
take up a lot of my time so I yeah well
and I am I interviewed a stationary
designer recently who does wedding
invites and sweets and we were talking
about printing and she she brought up a
good point that if you're looking
locally for printers or if you're yeah
like it like you said you're getting
samples from all these different places
and pricing from them you also want to
sort of build into that process like an
interview kind of style where you're not
just getting the sample you're seeing
like how quickly they respond to you
know friendly they are how helpful they
are as opposed to just which one's the
cheapest and has the right paper because
when it comes down to it you're gonna
have to deal with this person a lot and
in a bunch if you need help that even if
they're a little bit more expensive that
will be worth it in the long run right
it's true I mean I I kinda feel it's
like any sort of new job though they're
usually I've been through a few printers
they're usually really great at first
and then when a when a problem occurs
then things start to get crazy because
often times you want your product
because you have to ship it
so that's important as well don't feel
like don't be afraid to move on to
another printer if one that you have
isn't working out because it's the most
important thing obviously is that your
cards are of quality people are paying
money for them so I've had to call my
printer a couple of times and be like I
cannot sell these like they ship them to
me I don't even go pick them up it's
just figured into the cost so I've
gotten them and been like yeah these
aren't gonna work and that can be yeah
you definitely want to be working with
someone who can take that criticism and
it's going to do what they can to like
fix the problem and not every manager of
a print shop or every print shop owner
is going to necessarily be that way so
it is really really important to find
someone that you can work with long term
but if it doesn't work out after the
first month or two then just move on and
and try to find someone else you know
for sure and so along those lines of
sourcing printers I know I know some
people use like you line and septa
source money packaging is that what you
use I use you line for my boxes my
shipping boxes but don't really use them
for much else it's we're a disadvantage
in Canada obviously because we just
don't have as many sources for things
like on Globes or boxes or anything like
that so so unfortunately I wish I could
find a local place I suggest local if
you can like over anything but if you
can't then obviously you have to look to
the bigger box places like your wine
yeah yeah sure okay so I just want to
mention to anybody watching if they have
questions to start submitting them now
we can start reading them because I
think we're just about at the end of the
ones that were submitted ahead of time
we had one more though
that it's an interesting one and I don't
know how much you have an opinion on
this Anita but we can discuss it either
way is what are your thoughts on
offering printable greeting cards as
digital download so people who do that
kind of thing on Etsy I don't mind it
I've contemplated doing it but I think
it needs to be I think you have to
really decide when I when I was starting
my line I actually was kind of going
back and forth between if I was just
going to do printables or if I was just
before I was going to do like tan
products and for me it felt important to
do tangible products I feel like there
is I mean the thing with doing
principles is I guess it depends on if
you're going to do that as a portion of
your business or if you're gonna do that
as your soul like stationary business
obviously you wouldn't really have your
items in stores if you're doing it that
way that would just be a retail
component and I've contemplated having a
separate store with on Etsy or a
separate website which is completely all
digital downloads but I haven't taken
that leap yet or I don't know if I'll do
that but there is something for me about
actually doing tangible products and
having a studio space and stuffing them
in the envelopes and and and having them
in stores that is part of the allure for
me in doing this I have nothing and
nothing against printables at all I
guess like business people like to say
that you should have as many different
revenue streams as possible and I think
adding that one to a business is a valid
way to make money I see nothing wrong
with that at all
you're the market might be saturated a
little bit or not see with printables
but I'm not sure it could be a good way
though to get your feet wet with the
whole thing because the shipping and all
the calculations for your cost and all
the extra pieces you have to do with
that can be a little bit overwhelming so
if you're a a graphic designer someone
who just wants to make the actual
graphics and see how it goes first that
could be a good way to start - yeah for
sure and if you decide that at that
point you wanted to do tangible products
you could do that as well you can either
close down the the printable shop and
parlay those two to tangible products or
you could do both yeah there's lots of
options mm-hmm sure okay so I haven't
seen any other questions come in but I
have one last question for you that I
think is important if you were to
restart your business right now like say
you had to say you were just starting it
now and you had never done this before
what would be the first kind of place
you would start like what would be
your action plan I think there's so many
facets to this question because I think
if you're talking on a personal level I
would say definitely have the passion
for it and be something that you love if
you don't have that I kind of started
off a little wobbly there so I feel if I
would have been doing the cards that I
wanted to do from the beginning then
things would have went a little bit
smoother so there's that aspect
something that's really practical is
have your business registered look into
what kind of bookkeeping you're going to
use all that sort of stuff is really
important the financial aspect because
what happens if you get busy very
quickly is that that all goes on the
back burner and then you have a big mess
to deal with afterwards so it's
definitely important to have like all
the financial stuff figured out because
this startup for me is kind of like a
side thing like thinking will this work
well I was a stay-at-home mom of two
boys doing the freelance thing so you
know it was kind of like as this is this
going to be something that's going to
actually like make me money is it not
you don't really know always when you go
into it so but going into it with a plan
that it is going to be financially
successful and having all those sorts of
things at least in place or knowing a
bit about like the financial aspect of
bringing business I think is really
important because you won't feel as
overwhelmed and just doing your research
what kind of envelopes you're going to
use how you plan to ship so having
sample products and and going on the
Canada Post website or another website
and kind of looking at the wait for for
your products and figuring that all out
will be less of a headache because it is
a bit of a nightmare if you just kind of
slop some stuff up on Etsy or on a
website and then you're dealing with all
of that stuff as you go so as many
things as you can have planned in
advance I think that's that's also
really important yeah so I feel like
what I'm hearing you say is to think
about the logistics before you actually
I can sell anything which I think is
good advice for anybody trying to sell
any kind of product yeah exactly
yeah it doesn't like in the moment in
the movie you just want to do it and
kind of see if it's going to be
successful but in the long term you'll
you'll be very happy a few kind of plans
everything out in advance mm-hmm okay so
a couple questions did come in
afterwards and these are kind of just
interesting quick ones are your designs
hand-drawn and designed and then scanned
in digitally or are they done digitally
right off the bat and I know a lot of
them are text but the ones that aren't
are hand done anymore so the the
original cards that were hand
Illustrated they were drawn on paper and
then scanned into illustrator and then
vectorized and then placed on to like
cards then when I moved to text base
that's all done an illustrator so it's
all just like a font and created in
Illustrator and then printed yeah so
that's basically the process yeah yeah
the next question was what user-friendly
program do you use to create so mostly
Adobe Illustrator yeah so I'm an
illustrator user I mean I know lots of
people that design their cards in
Photoshop so I mean I can't really speak
to any other programs but photo shops
pretty easy to use so it takes a I mean
I'll take a little while obviously to
get used to it but it's pretty user
friendly and you could quickly learn how
to make cards in Photoshop Illustrator
is what I choose to use and I would
suggest that if you do hand
illustrations then you would use but
most of these iPads and stuff like that
now to either illustrations but if you
are still working on paper then yeah you
would definitely scan it in use
illustrator add vector eyes it so you
can then when you vectorize it you can
make your images like smaller or larger
and like fit them how you want on your
the dimensions of your cards so that
would be the suggestion I'd have for
that and then one last question that
came in at the start that I think I
somehow didn't see come up here someone
said that they are from the generation
where you always sent thank-you cards
etc or small blank cards and thank-you
cards do you think there would be a
market for just a business around that
type of card or do you need to be more
diaper
you definitely need to more be more
diverse for sure there are times of the
year when stores are purchasing cards so
if you only have one type of card
they're going to go to another another
store another brand that offers more
variety because as a shop owner I'm not
one but I mean as a shop owner in their
head they're thinking like the last
places I have to order from and deal
with all of that the better so if
they're looking at ordering you know a
hundred cards for their stores fill up
space generally they probably wouldn't
first think and go to just a shop that
offers just thank-you cards or that sort
of thing so I think you definitely need
to have more diverse offerings the
number one type of card you have to have
his birthday card so the more birthday
cards you have in your line the better
it is I'm like weird
I don't really always go by what you're
supposed to do like most most car
designers release new designs in the
spring and then again in the fall or
some do it like before Valentine's Day
it's just there's so many different
dates and I just can't bother to pay
attention to any of that stuff I just
kind of do what I do I try to be like
okay this really should have a birthday
card but if one does it come to me like
naturally then I'm not gonna just force
a birthday card so that people will buy
it so it is important to kind of keep
that in mind that they're looking for
diversity and that there are certain
things that like certain times of the
year where people are going to be buying
cards and gifts where and stuff like
that so you kind of have to cater to
that a little bit but also do your own
thing I think though if you do want to
have a successful line you'd probably
need to offer more than just thank-you
cards and maybe a birthday and thank you
I don't know maybe could you both cool
well I think that finishes up all the
questions that have come up thank you so
much and either for coming I think it'll
be really helpful for anybody who's
thinking about doing that because I know
that it's kind of one of those things
where as soon as you learn hand
lettering or any kind of art that you
want to sell greeting cards are like a
natural progression of that
a lot of people but it can be it can be
a lot to think about when you're like
logistically like you're saying but it's
important to do a lot yeah I think like
a big one other thing I should mention
that I didn't really mention was that do
your research to on cards that are
already on the market so go on at sea or
just type into Google like like the
phrase that you're thinking of or even
like if you had we're doing a card that
had like a sloth on it and then you had
a funny phrase just type it in and look
for it first because it's really
important that us like you don't have
something that's too similar to someone
else not that it's even necessarily
copying but if you have something that's
even like remotely similar to another
brand then you're just not going to be
able to stand out as much so that's a
that's a big piece of advice just make
sure your stuff is original yeah and I
mean it could be copyright I need to be
really careful for anybody who's
wondering about that too there's also a
Q&A with we did a Q&A with a creative
attorney attorney for creative Miss
Clara and she went over all of that and
how you can and can't copy other things
so lots of helpful things on on the
other the past q and A's but yeah I just
thanks again Anita for coming on here so
much and I for anybody who's listening I
will come back in the comments here and
just type in some answers to some of the
questions that are coming up but for now
I think we'll leave it at that
great okay thank you so much thank you
later thanks bye bye bye